What it reminds me of is that 2014 standoff with the Bundy family on federal land in the US or farmers in France. Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently.
Edit: See my comment below for sources on homeless shelter
[1] https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-homeless-shelter-staff-hara...
[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/31/canada-trudeau-deno...
[3] https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/police-say-ottawa-tru...
[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/world/canada/trudeau-truc...
Since this protest is making him look bad, I’d take what he says with a grain of salt.
I was just trying to show that the homeless shelter claim is beyond just random stranger on the internet ( he argubly is more credible than me however Low that maybe)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/la-hospita...
> While the sheriff's department said protesters at one point blocked entrances and exits at the hospital, no videos or photos confirmed that was the case.
[snip, most of the article about the shooting itself]
> Rather, video footage showed a handful of deputies standing in a driveway (apparently an entrance to the hospital’s emergency room), while the small group of protesters paced up and down a sidewalk feet away from them.
> At one point, deputies detained a journalist with LA’s NPR station, KPCC, who was reporting on the small protest, as well as a male protester who “refused to comply” with deputies’ demands to leave the area.
> The sheriff’s department said the reporter, Josie Huang, ignored deputies’ repeated commands and did not present “proper” press credentials. But she said and videos of her arrest show she didn’t have time or space to react to deputies orders before they shoved her and forcefully took her into custody. In one video, she can be heard shouting “I’m a reporter… I’m with KPCC” as officers push her to the ground. They cited her with obstructing justice, though KPCC is urging authorities to drop the charge.
Expressing yourself is fine, disturbing public life because you don't get your will isn't. That's not how civilized societies resolve issues. This is now apparently a controversial take on multiple political sides.
And generally arresting looters and rioters seems quite popular on both sides of the political spectrum. They often didn't have anything to do with the protests, and were just taking advantage of the police being busy.
I beg to differ. Any attempts to contain the mass violence were decried as "Trumpist fascism".
It's not odd to publish editorials from activists when a bunch of protests are going on. That doesn't mean everyone is on board.
My former workplace hired outside therapists to attend to us people of color, and held special town halls and discussions. Meanwhile, I was losing sleep because the local strip mall was being looted, and I had to listen to gu shots all night. I spent one night sleeping on the floor of my living room with my guns due to reports of break-ins in my neighborhood.
Sounds awesome until I come to your place banging pots and pans all night and blocking your driveway, for an extended period.
As long as someone else is paying the price, standing on principle is easy.
So every protest that has ever happened ?
If anything, the associated violence and demands of the protest are pretty tame in comparison to what the BLM or Indian Farmers protests demanded.
It is easy to dismiss the protestors because the reason for the protests sounds unimportant within our peer groups. However, a Democracy bestows equal rights onto people, and the validity of a protest is determined more so by its ability to be visible (the emotional fervor) than the merit of its points.
> Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently
Yep.
Ottawa, being the capital, gets two types of protests. The legal ones who get a permit have their route planned out in advance, and the police shut down the streets while the protest occurs. It's sort of like a parade. It's inconvenient and annoying, but no single street gets shut down for more than a couple of hours.
And it's not just the agreeable protests that get permits. They pretty much have to give a permit to anybody who asks for one.
For the illegal protests like the G20 occupation and when the indigenous people blocked a freeway exit, the police come in fast and hard.
> If anything, the associated violence and demands of the protest are pretty tame in comparison to what the BLM or Indian Farmers protests demanded.
Not in Canada.
edit: there's a third type of protest, the small ones. You're welcome to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and yell as long as you don't interfere with anybody.
> legal ones who get a permit have their route planned out in advance
So the kind of protests that don't matter ?
A protest, by definition, is meant to display discontent from the masses because conventional means have failed. If a protest does not hit where it hurts, it isn't an effective protest. If shouting loudly worked, then twitter outrage would have been sufficient for pressuring the Govt. into accepting their demands.
A slight tangent, but this is exactly why I dislike 'permitted' or 'side walk' protests. You're walking down a pre-cleared street supporting an already popular movement with institutional support to show what exactly ? It reeks of the kind of slacktivism that has been memed to death over the last decade.
The people are clearly expressing their disillusionment with the overreach of the Govt. in terms of the intrusion of privacy permitted to the Govt. by law. If you are disillusioned by the system, of course you'd just extra-legal means to display your discontent.
Now, the Govt. ofc is allowed to react with force. If anything, I support removal of actively destructive protests with force. But, the current Canadian Govt. has supported far more egregious protests in the other nations (specifically the farmers protests and 2020 riots). So, I am enjoying a bit of schadenfreude seeing Trudeau get a piece of his own medicine.
The Federal demands they have are for our democratic government to resign and instill a dictatorship made up of people of their choosing...
Why the fuck should anyone listen to these people?
10,000 people marching through downtown get lots of attention and they get heard. They shut down the downtown core for most of a day, and inconvenience a lot of people. They attract lots of media attention.
This protest is only 250 people.
Some level of discomfort is ok. Some is not. There is a line somewhere. Usually it involves the level of violence involved (terrorists after all are just making people very "uncomfortable" [what's more uncomfortable than being blown up] to achieve a political end.).
To make the ad absurdum argument explicit: if your argument for why this protest is ok applies to 9/11 to the same extent that it applies to this protest, maybe its a bad argument. That doesn't mean that this protest is neccesarily not ok, just that this is a really bad argument to use to prove the point.
Now they can’t drive away the <N> trucks in downtown Ottawa. You just exhausted all your leverage with them when you decided to throw the book at them.
You call a tow truck driver. They say “I don’t have a class 3 tow truck, there’s no way I can move a semi.”
You call a class 3 tow truck driver. They know they’re risking their reputation with the trucking industry, so they refuse. If they’re the trolling sort, they say they have COVID.
Now what? There’s a lot of mess to clean up, and you don’t have the equipment you need to do it.
- How many bulldozers do you have nearby?
- How many bulldozers do you have nearby that are on the government's side here?
- Where's your nearest hole or parking lot big enough to put a couple thousand trucks in, indefinitely?
- Who's going to pay for that? Your truckers are in jail, so you threaten to...jail them if they don't pay?
It's Canada, not Xinjiang. The worst they can do is jail you in a cushy prison for longer, with people who already counted the cost.
Please, give me examples of what you'd consider "lawful" protests of any significance.
That's not civil disobedience, at all.
That's just civil obedience.
What makes it unlawful?
I'm not saying that they should be prevented from protesting (and I strongly disagree with that protest), just answering the question as to why this might be illegal.
Aside from that, I have lived in the approximate center of a moderate sized city (metro area of ~1 million) and noticed that there are occasional, authorized events that take over and prevent any and all traffic. Bicycle races for instance.
Assuming one isn't vehemently against a protest in the first place, debating blocking traffic boils down to the technical requirements for permits and coordination with authorities. It's only a shocking breakdown of public order if people strongly oppose the underlying cause.
The Coutts border crossing and highway is currently blocked. This is in contravention of the Critical Infrastructure Act as highways are included.
After how many court proceedings?
The pearl-clutching about this protest has been something else.
First, federal jurisdiction includes: mandating vaccine passports at the border, firing employees in federally-regulated industries that are unvaccinated, and preventing unvaccinated Canadians from being able to travel via plane or train domestically. There is also evidence to suggest that the Canadian government pressured the US government into implementing their own mandate on cross-border transportation to match ours.
Second, over 30% of Canadians polled support these specific protests, and over 50% of Canadians want to see an end to all provincial and federal mandates. In the face of omicron there is zero science to support vaccine passports or other restrictions, and frankly there never was.
Third, many vaccinated Canadians like myself are supportive of peaceful protests aimed at restoring basic charter rights even for those we might disagree with. I've always thought it disgusting that Canadians cheered on while unvaccinated Canadians lost their jobs or couldn't send their kids to university... this is exactly why minority rights are so important.
Finally, it's common for protests to occur in Ottawa about all manner of issues because it's the nation's capital. Suggesting that none of the protestors understand who has jurisdiction over what is false.
Amongst governments that have been driven by science and not by pseudo-scientific bullshit covering crypto-capitalist garbage (like New Zealand), the subsequent waves have been smaller and more contained—and they have _not_ returned to the levels of lockdowns required. What makes vaccine passports required are people who refuse to give the first damned care about their fellow citizens. AND THEY WORK. Vaccination appointment went _up_ when SAQ implemented vaccine passport requirements.
There are no charter rights being violated either by the lockdowns or by vaccine mandates. Your statement about "minority rights" is extremely disingenuous, as minority rights are not about people who _choose_ not to do something based on misinformation and disinformation, but on characteristics of who they are (skin colour, Indigenous, etc.), where they are from, the languages they speak, their gender and/or orientation, the culture from which they hail, and/or religions that they practice (and courts tend _not_ to pay much attention to any claim of minority status without historical evidence of discrimination against claimed minorities). The assholes in the Truck Tantrum are — by and large — WASPy conspiracy believers. They are the exact _opposite_ of minority, and exactly why they need to be laughed out of town.
I have no problem with them protesting. I also have no problem with laughing at them because they are claiming things which are demonstrably false and are whining over loss of privilege as if it were the same as real discrimination. People who _choose_ to be antisocial like the Flu Truck Convoy jackasses don’t get to claim that they’re discriminated against because society tells them to take a hike.
Okay bigot.
I would say, just end those unlawful and unscientific vaccine mandates that have a detrimental impact on societies and businesses, so everyone can move on.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/supreme-court-va...
> In freezing a lower court opinion that allowed the regulation to go into effect nationwide, the majority sent a clear message the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, charged with protecting workplace safety, overstepped its authority. In contrast, the justices said that a separate agency could issue a rule to protect the health and safety of Medicare and Medicaid patients.
So they made an exception for healthcare workers in order to protect "the health and safety of Medicare and Medicaid patients". Patients are only protected by vaccination of healthcare workers if the vaccine is sterilizing, which is not the case (science).
Strictly speaking, SCOTUS erred in its decision (other vaccine mandates in the past _have_ passed constitutional muster), but that’s unsurprising given that there are no thoughtful conservatives on the bench. Even Scalia, one of the most ignoble Justices to ever serve on SCOTUS was smarter than any other conservative on the bench now and would _likely_ have disagreed with this decision. Most of the recent justices have no business being on the court either as wholly unqualified or because of unconstitutional abrogation of duty by the legislative branch under Mitch McConnell.
Could you elaborate on what makes the protest unlawful? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly
If all it takes to invalidate this human right is a couple agent provocateur's causing some violence. Then protesting is essentially illegal for everyone. That's not how it works. Which is also why the ottawa police are backing off and saying the military has to do it. The military backed off saying nope.exe.
>Can someone explain to me why this is tolerated and why these people are not simply being arrested?
It's a peaceful protest that has every right to exist.
>What it reminds me of is that 2014 standoff with the Bundy family on federal land in the US or farmers in France. Some groups can just do whatever they want apparently.
https://notthebee.com/article/come-and-laugh-with-me-at-the-...
Many great videos on there that make it abundantly clear that the media has quite falsely mislabeled this lawful protest. If I might make a suggestion, analyze your media source's bias. You seem to be listening to the yellow journalism.