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Comment by CoastalCoder | Hacker News Reader

Honest question: Is there any downside to simply crossing into the U.S. via its southern border, or overstaying a visa?

My impression is that the U.S. government mostly doesn't enforce its laws against unlawful entry. And that the Democratic party wants a path to full citizenship for anyone who manages to stay in the country long enough.

So I'm curious if this approach would work:

1. Enter the U.S. illegally to start the clock.

2. Work remotely "from India" for some company. Have a trusted friend/relative in India forward enough of your paycheck to the U.S. to cover your cost of living.

3. When the political climate is right, get onto whatever path to citizenship is being offered.

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>> And that the Democratic party wants a path to full citizenship for anyone who manages to stay in the country long enough.<<

Full path to citizenship is for those who 'were brought as kids/infants' i.e. who had no say in how they came into the country. If they are still minors and need their parents, then some 'form of stay' for their parents.

If you cross the border illegally as an adult and barring any special circumstances, you will most likely be deported. It would also be difficult to get a professional job since a lot of companies participate in the eVerify program.

DACA is a true slap in the face to everyone who made the decision to follow and respect the law.

> Full path to citizenship is for those who 'were brought as kids/infants' i.e. who had no say in how they came into the country.

It's true they had no say, but as adults they do have a say and can decide to leave at any time and apply for the proper visa from their country.

There are people who come at a young enough age, e.g. as infants, and don't know anything at all about their "home" country. They may not even know the language very well, if at all. They likely don't have a single memory of the place.

So while technically you're right - as adults they have a say - it's asking quite a lot. Very few people would move to a (likely much poorer) country with no social support, and likely with no money, just because of a decision their parents made. For all intents and purposes their home is the US, and their identity is American.

> their country.

If someone has lived in the same country for the entirety of the life that they can recollect, most people would consider that "their country". Your strict viewpoint also presents the opportunity for absurd scenarios when coupled with birthright citizenship, for example a Mexican woman is giving birth to twins...one comes out on the south side of the Rio Grande, and the other comes out 5 minutes later on the north side of the Rio Grande. According to you, 18 years later the first born would have no respect for the law, and the second born would be some kind of pure embodiment of America.

> DACA is a true slap in the face to everyone who made the decision to follow and respect the law.

It's different if you had a choice in the matter but how does DACA affect the decisions that you made? If you knew that DACA was going to be a thing, would you have decided to illegally immigrate instead? I think that would have been pretty much impossible if you were a kid.

> apply for the proper visa from their country

If you've been living in the US for as long as you can remember then the US is your own country.

DACA is a workaround for people who are functionally "American" but not legally so. Them moving "back to Mexico" would work out about as well as telling a bunch of people working in car factories to move to Mexico to keep their job.

Also, the law itself is a slap in the face to everyone who made the decision to follow and respect the law. Immigration law is deliberately designed to be at least a little dehumanizing to the immigrant: it's NIMBYism, but for people instead of duplexes. The only thing that we should be giving the people who followed the law is an apology for having to go through such a nightmare. We absolutely should not retain such a restrictive system purely for the sake of making people who followed it feel like their sunk costs went into something.

This is a terrible idea.

Some American politicians have hinted at the possibility of mass amnesty for illegal immigrants, but it is an issue that is widely unpopular--partially due to how that could change the eligible voter population.

I think it is more likely that amnesty either never happens, or it is only offered to specific small groups of people.

Otherwise, America is extremely unkind towards anybody who breaks their laws--especially if your goal is to later apply for a visa or Green Card.

Finally, crossing through the southern border is not so easy. Other immigrants die when they make the journey.

1.7 million people may disagree with you

Oct. 22, 2021 A record 1.7 million migrants from around the world, many of them fleeing pandemic-ravaged countries, were encountered trying to enter the United States illegally in the last 12 months, capping a year of chaos at the southern border, which has emerged as one of the most formidable challenges for the Biden administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/us/politics/border-crossi...

That 1.7 million is the number of people caught while trying, not the number of people who get away with it.

> Some American politicians have hinted at the possibility of mass amnesty for illegal immigrants, but it is an issue that is widely unpopular

That's just not even remotely true. It's wildly popular.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/06/17/americans-b...

74% want to give legal status to all children. 75% want to give a path to legality for everyone. Even most of Republicans want to do so!

There aren't that many positions in the US that are so wildly popular.

Can you imagine anything more popular than giving people free money in their bank accounts? Well that's only supported by 78% of people. Legalizing illegal immigrants is as popular as giving everyone in the US free cash.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/us/stimulus-check-polls.h...

Now, that's with actual humans. Politicians often care about businesses more than humans, and US businesses benefit tremendously from this underclass of workers that have no rights and often live in fear.

> U.S. government mostly doesn't enforce its laws against unlawful entry

If you ever get arrested for anything, get background checked for anything, get reported by somebody to the police, need to deal with legal matter, need health insurance, or if one day somebody at ICE missed his morning coffee......

Life as a fugitive is not fun. Even if currently the law is not strictly enforced.

The traffic stops are how most get caught. I was in jail with hundreds of no-paper immigrants. Almost always they would get caught in some random traffic stop and then have a hard time from there.

If you can work remotely from India while making enough money to cover your cost of living in the U.S., then you should... stay in India and live like a King?

A family of four just tragically perished trying step 1 (albeit on the northern border).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60162500

At best, this is a perilous, uncertain and undignified route.

This whole exercise would be moot, because the clock cannot be started by just entering the country. Specific paperwork has to be filed and then approved. The clock only starts after the approval.

Any idea which particular paperwork?

I know that the Democratic party uses the term "undocumented" rather than "illegal", presumably for rhetorical reasons. But I assumed that they also meant "undocumented" in the literal sense, i.e. that a person would have little or no paper trail to prove their residence.

All you have to do is cross the border, get arrested, and then you're released and good to stay.

The Transportation Security Administration confirmed to Fox News on Friday that it allows illegal immigrants to use arrest warrants as an alternative form of ID to board airplanes.

"For non-citizens and non-U.S. nationals who do not otherwise have acceptable forms of ID for presentation at security checkpoints, TSA may also accept certain DHS-issued forms, including ICE Form I-200 (Warrant for Arrest of an Alien)," a TSA spokesperson told Fox News. That refers to a civil immigration arrest warrant, not a criminal arrest warrant.

The agency added that the document will then be validated via an "alien identification number" being checked against a number of Customs and Border Protection (CBP) databases.

"All passengers whose identity is verified through alternate procedures receive additional screening before being allowed into the secure area of the airport," the statement said.

> you're released and good to stay.

But unable to drive legally, work legally, apply for benefits legally, or do pretty much anything else. Sure you can board a flight; for whatever that's worth. TSA accepts foreign passports as identification too so...I wouldn't say it's worth all that much.

Some of that depends on the state. California will issue a driver's license to undocumented immigrants, just not a REAL ID license. I think undocumented immigrants can also get Medicaid in some states.

Of course it's a stressful life and they have to work under the table and can't travel internationally, but if their main goal is for their kids to be Americans, they may think the sacrifice is worth it.

It probably would work fine, except that you'd be paying US cost of living (healthcare, rent, etc) while not on a US salary, so there doesn't seem to be a point - you're most likely burning money doing this and if you're hoping for a path to legalization, the issue is Congress can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

A lot of people do what you say, but for a few months at a time (within the terms of their visa), every 3-4 years. During those months you could maybe get rent a Manhattan apartment (on airbnb or something) and experience living in New York, visit national parks or other attractions, do some shopping, and after a few months (6 months is the legal limit I think) you've probably experienced most of what you need to know.

> anyone who manages to stay in the country long enough.

If you're talking about DACA their eligibility to change of status is also measured in decades. But you have the problem of being detained and deported at any moment during those decades of waiting.

And for point 2 you've upped the penalties to tax evasion as well. If the company you work for knows you are working illegaly or no in the US and not paying payroll taxes on it it's going to cause a lot more problems.

Democratic Party can't get any bills passed. Did you miss the whole debacle with the dead "Build Back Better" bill? Watered down to almost nothing over many months and in the end, it failed regardless. You really expect to depend on them for anything? They only serve their donors and everything else they say is fluff. The most they can do is executive order which gets reversed when the next Republican enters office. Keep in mind each Republican that enters is getting more and more aggressive. Trump instituted a new 40 question immigration test. Doing anything other than following the law with perfection is strongly not recommended.

Your best bet is to secure 500K-1M in assets to invest in the US and use that route. I know some rich people who have given up their citizenship for tax purposes and will regain the citizenship using this route when they wish to retire in Montana.

> I know some rich people who have given up their citizenship for tax purposes and will regain the citizenship using this route

Technically renouncing citizenship for tax purposes can make the renouncer inadmissable to the US. If the immigration authorities decide these people are inadmissable, no amount of money will get their citizenship back.

Well he paid his taxes on time every year, its just that by living in Europe most of his life, he got tired of paying the US despite not being there since childhood. I'm sure he got his ducks in a row....but is there even a way to report behavior like this anyway?

> no amount of money

There will be a way. Even if you have to get the law changed, it’ll be possible given a big enough budget

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