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Comment by kornhole | Hacker News Reader

The end of the article mentions but doesn't elaborate on how the beneficiaries are Google and Apple's surveillance advertising business which are booming.

Some commenters are speaking about a false dichotomy of Apple verses Google. Android open source platform does not contain Google. I don't use Google or Apple and do not recall seeing an overt advertisement in years.

Facebook makes no mention of the impact of deGoogled Android phones(GrapheneOS, LineageOS, CalyxOS,..) Linux, Ublock Origin, pfBlockerNG, Pi-hole, Adguard, or the other tools that block surveillance advertising probably because even mentioning them will create awareness that people can opt out of almost all surveillance advertising, including from Apple and Google.

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Apple doesn’t have a surveillance advertising business, let alone a booming one. This seems to be a common new falsehood around here.

That's nonsense. They're bringing in $5billion/year from advertising.

I notice you don’t say they are bringing in $5 billion from surveillance advertising.

Presumably because to claim that would be false.

Apple's advertising operations are not transparent, but they do collect a ton of information about every user.

Google pays Apple ~$15B a year which is surveillance advertising revenue.

1. You clearly have no evidence that Apple is doing any surveillance advertising, otherwise you’d present it. Claiming they do is therefore a lie.

2. Just because Google pays someone money doesn’t mean they have a surveillance advertising business. Google buys chairs, computers, food etc. That doesn’t mean these suppliers have surveillance advertising businesses.

Face it. It’s just a falsehood.

I am sorry I did not cite these things. You can find this same reporting about Google paying Apple from many sources including Forbes. https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/google-apple-default-sear...

Google's main business is surveillance advertising, and they pay Apple for the privilege of surveilling their users and returning them advertising. I am sorry but I do not know what else to call it other than surveillance advertising.

Here is a study showing that Apple collects data from Iphone users pretty much the same as Google does from Android phones. https://irishtechnews.ie/trinity-study-privacy-concerns-abou...

Apple has a $5B advertising business of their own. I would be naive to think they do not use any of the data they collect about individuals for their advertising. Their closed source platform and business practices does not enable us to verify what they claim. I have plenty of other resources of information about this, but it is pointless to share if someone does not really want to see it.

> Google's main business is surveillance advertising, and they pay Apple for the privilege of surveilling their users and returning them advertising.

Not true. Google is accessed via a web browser or via their own app. Google doesn’t have to pay to access Apple’s users. They pay for Apple to make them the default search engine in Safari. In this way, Google is paying apple to advertise their service, but Apple isn’t doing any surveillance.

> I am sorry but I do not know what else to call it other than surveillance advertising.

Yes, Google’s business is surveillance advertising. To claim that Apple has a surveillance advertising business because they receive payments from Google, is no different from claiming that the company that supplies toilet paper to the Googleplex ‘has a surveillance advertising business.’

> I have plenty of other resources of information about this

If you had a resource that shows that Apple was doing surveillance advertising, you would have presented it by now. You obviously don’t.

The analogy that someone who supplies toilet paper is guilty for what their customer does is not fitting here. Let's say I am paid and entrusted to watch and protect a herd of sheep. A guy pays me $150 each time to come over and have some pleasure with those sheep many many times. I did not do the thing myself, but I certainly know what is going on and profit from it. I am not a good person, and you should not entrust me with your sheep.

Except that Apple doesn’t in fact do surveillance advertising itself, so that analogy is complete bullshit.

> Facebook makes no mention of the impact of deGoogled Android phones

They're probably too insignificant to affect Facebooks bottom line.

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