Comment by ctdonath | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ctdonath | Hacker News Reader

Unified queue.

Regardless of media, business structure, delivery mechanism, company name, etc. methinks what all customers want is a single place to choose & queue content, filtered by whatever options they desire, delivered on whatever medium is available and they pay for via a spectrum of contracts (from unlimited-per-month to single order).

Just make sure it's all on one queue. If multi-queue, then only because one customer may be grouping for multiple individuals (ex.: husband wants ultraviolent scifi, wife wants sappy romances, kids want Elmo galore). Whatever you do, don't force the customer to spend time/effort along such artificial differences as media (ex.: I want the DVD of "Scarface", but it's not on streaming anymore and I don't want to pay extra for the BD version - let me pick those options based on my single content choice, don't make me search 2-3 different sites for the same title which, I notice, have unreliable availability).

Amazon faces the same issue: vast business differences between warehouses of books & other physical stuff shipped by mail, vs. server farms for Kindle, streaming video, cloud storage/processing, etc. - same problem as Netflix, yet they're doing well under one website. I can search for Moby's latest album, and when ready to order can with ease choose between CD, MP3, DVD, and instant video: same content pool, same checkout, easy delivery, user doesn't care how it all happened.

I think a unified queue hurts the loyalty for instant queue people. Whenever I am on instant queue and I search for a movie and see that it's not available for instant I am annoyed. You could argue that it would help convert me to DVDs- but I know that it doesn't, especially afte the recent price hike. In fact, it really just makes me think about how Netflix streaming lacks material.

If they feel the true future of their product is in streaming than I think this makes sense. They aren't trying to hold onto the low-margin DVD my mail people. They are trying to encourage more streaming customers and move forward in a drastic way.

Maybe the better way to accomplish this is to make the netflix classic website as discussed in the article include the non-streaming movies and just have people with instant queue not even see other movies.

Regardless- I don't think one queue is necessarily better.

I disagree I think a unified queue is where it is at. I want to keep my ratings linked with my queue and have social engagement around my queue also.

Services like goodfil.ms (http://goodfil.ms.) and GetGlue (http://getglue.com) are good at helping people discover and find films within their own networks.

Eventually streaming of films will become a commodity; Netflix, Apple, Hulu and the cable networks will all vie for market leadership of streaming; and IMHO whoever creates the best social queue is where the long term value is.

Facebook are clearly going to make a play at this with their Watch button - it'll be interesting to see how exactly, but it's not difficult to imagine them serving up "8 of your friends have watched Scarface" in place of their ads - then directing you through to Netflix for viewing.

My best guess as to why they are splitting the queues is due to the availability issues on the streaming side affecting customer 'morale', so to speak. i.e. when a streaming-only customer searches for a title, and then finds that it is only available on DVD, their perception of the service is diminished.

I think the end goal of this move is to kill off or sell the DVD portion of the service entirely, so by splitting the services, investors won't freak out when that eventually happens. This also is another reason for splitting the queues.

That is the main reason why I want a unified queue: inconsistent availability. I put "Scarface" on my queue, but being a low priority it's pretty far down; I was content that someday it would reach the top of the DVD queue and show up, or that on a whim I could hit "Play Now" and stream it. One day I noticed it was tagged for removal from streaming a few days hence, and didn't have time to watch it in the meantime. Streaming option disappeared. [shrug] Well, it's still available by DVD, I'll get to it. Then I get the "we're going to split the service" notice, note that I only watch 2-3 discs a month (lots of streaming instead) so the separate fee wasn't worth it and I canceled. Even if I want to pay a one-time rental to watch it, not available as an option and alternatives (sign up, get disc, cancel) are too much hassle now.

Huh, maybe I'll check Amazon, where I can buy "Scarface" new, buy it used, no-strings streaming rental, or maybe even Prime "free" streaming...and all from a single search...[clickety clickety]...ah, it's $3 to stream it once, and there's 53 purchasing/renting options from $0.01+shipping used VHS to $3 streaming rental to $700 including humidor. Pity it's not in the "free Prime streaming" option, but at least I know the options with one search.

That post was impossible to read.

Netflix, thanks for doing this to your customers.

When I put something in my DVD queue, it automatically appears in my streaming queue when it's available. This makes me happy, I watch the movie online, then delete it from my DVD queue. If the new system no longer supports this, it will affect my morale.

But I suspect you're right about killing off or selling the DVD service, and I think they're intentionally trying to sour customer opinion to bring about this end. It's a shame, because Netflix, as it previously existed, was one of the few subscription services I was happy to pay for. After the site redesign, everything's gone to hell (instantwatcher.com is the only useable interface I've found, on any platform). Oh, well, it was good while it lasted...

> when a streaming-only customer searches for a title, and then finds that it is only available on DVD

So now, they'll find... it's not available at all. How does that any better for customer morale?

I am getting the feeling that Netflix's customer base doesn't understand why some titles are available on streaming vs DVD only (this is based on random comment reading). It is a very subtle difference, but it comes down to 'Netflix doesn't have the title' vs 'Netflix has the title but they won't let me stream it'.

Admittedly, the much bigger motive is that they want to get rid of their dvd-by-mail business.

Don't forget ratings. Many people have years and years of ratings that drive their algorithm. That is now gone. Good job guys.

We don't know that yet!

I'm quite interested to see how they handle user data in the split -- will each company get a copy? Will the Netflix side maintain a complete database of movies, even if it can't stream them, so that you can continue to rate freely and get recommendations?

There are some thorny user experience problems here for sure, but they are not unsolvable.

they are clearly not unsolvable, and in my view they aren't even thorny UX problems. they are clear cut.

the issue is that Netflix thus far has done zero to try to make them better and has, ever step of the way, created these issues when a simple, customer friendly workaround seems apparent.

what to do about ratings? make the two sites interoperable. hell, create an API for Netflix ratings.

what to do about the two Queues? i already have two Queues on Netflix. make the two sites interoperable. seems pretty basic for a big league company.

whatever. i am not shedding any tears. I've been watching movies online for almost 10 years now and I'm going to continue doing so. whether i pay netflix money or fire up a BT client, i don't really care.

the real question is: does Hollywood want my money?

I think the problem with that idea is that they're likely preparing to sell off the whole DVD business in order to get the studios to stop insisting on Netflix paying streaming licensing royalties on EVERY subscriber rather than just the ones that subscribe to streaming. The problem with that thinking is that Netflix then loses the leverage that being able to say that they'll just offer a disc offers them.

I'm worried that the studios are like the barbarians at the gates of the Roman/Netflix empire, and that the dark ages and feudalism are looming. Hopefully we won't have years of crappy legit setup vs. a much better illegal option before another unifier like Netflix rises.

I'm pretty sure they aren't going to throw that away, are you nuts? They had a big ol' contest a few years back to come up with a new recommendation algo.

Further to what I assume is your point, we have a few years of practice in linking accounts, so a particular user's historical data can easily be integrated with this new corporate architecture.

EDIT: I'm using the royal "we" to refer to technological techniques for linking accounts across disparate websites. I don't work for Netflix.

I have to believe this is true. Netflix has made no small bones about the fact that its recommendation / collaborative filtering algorithm is its strongest competitive advantage. To your point, they even sponsored that contest awhile back.

No way in hell they'd weaken, much less throw away, their golden goose.

I think their recommendation system is too limiting. At least give me a random button so I can see what else is available besides the same 37 selections they constantly shove in my face. Selection is king in on-demand streaming. Some people like to discover their own style instead of wearing the clothes their moms lay out for them.

The problem is that their recommendation system really isn't that big of an advantage. Content is king & people got Netflix because it provided better service at a better price compared to what they were getting elsewhere. I don't think I've heard of anyone signing up for Netflix specifically so they could use their recommendation engine to find new movies.

Netflix has to go back to providing a better service at an affordable price, something that isn't as easy as it once was when you're going against other streamlined big name contenders like Apple, Amazon or Hulu vs the old "incompetent" competition that was basically Blockbuster & Hollywood Video.

This. Ultimately, the splitting of the queues between two sites will be what drives me away from Netflix. As long as the streaming choices are only sporadically decent and intermittently available, having the DVD option as a backup is important.

Currently, if I come across anything I'd like to see at some point in the future, I add it to my Netflix queue and forget about it. I may watch it via streaming if and when available, or get it on DVD, or buy it...it doesn't really matter. The queue itself has value because it's a one stop shop for anything I may want to see (well, aside from things currently showing on television, which get added to Tivo in similar fashion).

Splitting the queues kills that convenience. Now I'll have to add it to multiple queues on different sites, and think about which list(s) something needs to be on, and maybe keep things in sync...it takes Netflix's single best feature to me and just kills it.

Really? When you're not limited to a few out at a time, and when they don't have to be physically delivered to you at a cost of 1-3 days, does the queue per se really matter so much anymore? I can see a lot of different ways to represent saved content for a streaming biz, but DVDs pretty much force an ordering. I almost never use my queue for streaming.

But ratings are another matter. Seems like they could syndicate that data back and forth.

> I almost never use my queue for streaming.

On my Blu-Ray player, the queue is the only way to play anything.

As far as I can tell, the only reason to have the streaming queue at all is for the brain dead integration that some devices do. For instance, my TiVo requires the queue but my Apple TV does not. For that reason alone I use the Apple TV to watch Netflix streaming as the two step process isn't good.

Unified queue nothing. I was talking with Adrian Cockroft at QCon last year and he said that Netflix would prefer to not have a queue for Instant Watch at all.

Def unified queue. They are violating a golden rule. not giving the people what they want. They've lost the Value in Value Added Service.

As of today there stock is down 40% from when this whole debacle started.

I believe it was Henry Ford who said "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse"."

Sometimes you have to do something that customers might not "want" to get to something that they really do want. If this lets Netflix improve their streaming service without being bogged down by dvds then I'll be all for the change.

There's a difference between "giving the customer exactly what they're asking for" and "listening to what the customer cares about". Ford said to avoid the first. Netflix is failing to do the second.

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