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Comment by rendall | Hacker News Reader

For those not familiar with US society, this is huge. Mississippi is generally regarded, true or not, as a conservative state, perhaps even reactionary.

Its government was a staunch defender of slavery, the later Jim Crow laws which mandated racial segregation, Negro voting disenfranchisement; the last to repeal alcohol prohibition; still frequently challenging abortion rights; among other such.

Mississippi is kind of a belle weather for how Southern conservative governments will lean. That Mississippi of all places legalizes marijuana means that it will probably be legalized in all 50 states within a year or two.

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This was a voter-led initiative and the state legislature tried to ignore it in last year’s legislative session. The governor was not a fan either. There were some other leaders who tried to challenge it in court. So I wouldn’t make that strong of a claim that you’re making…it’s still a tough fight here and very conservative. In good news, the vote for the initiative was like 70% for it.

Context on the state leg last year: https://mississippitoday.org/2021/03/22/medical-marijuana-an...

And the court case: https://mississippitoday.org/2021/04/14/mississippi-supreme-...

> was a voter-led initiative and the state legislature tried to ignore it

That this was a grass-roots initiative makes it more durable. It also means challengers can use it as a wedge issue, at the state level and federally.

True, but my educated guess as an observer of Mississippi politics... The US will legalize recreational marijuana at a federal level and then give the states the ability to legalize it or not. The state will not legalize it, and if they do, then they'll leave it up to the counties to decide. Most of the counties will not legalize it because it's a very conservative state where Christianity informs the politics more than personal freedoms.

And the grassroots efforts will have a hard fight because of how the power dynamics work in Mississippi. I'm very cynical about progressive politics in Mississippi because I've been a part of the grassroots movements and seen what actually happens. 100+ years of white supremacy is very effective at keeping the power structures in tact, because a lot of the voters are disenfranchised, gerrymandered out of having much power, or have moved away.

> I'm super cynical about progressive politics in Mississippi

If cannabis legalisation gets branded as a progressive issue it’s DOA. In Mississippi as well as in most states.

"progressive politics" means something different to me in Mississippi than what it might in California. And it means something different to the typical Republican in Mississippi vs the typical Democrat. I define progressive politics as "social reform" for ordinary people, i.e. legalizing marijuana and making amends for the harm the former laws caused, free pre-k education, etc. Not whatever they paint it to be on FoxNews or CNN or whatever.

If you really want to make Mississippi more like California, your highest priority should arguably be to support economic freedom and moderately libertarian policy stances - not "progressive" ones.

lol what? your sarcastic comment has nothing to do with anything i said in my comment. but okay, if you want to go that route, then see what "economic freedom" and austere policy has done for mississippi's economy! (hint: it has crippled it.)

Why haven't Democrats full-throatily supported legalization? I understand why Republicans haven't, but this seems so popular it seems crazy a major political party hasn't jumped on board.

What class of voters would it win them?

The DNC is a center-right party that America's liberal and left blocs vote for because they don't have a viable alternative.

They don't win any votes by supporting legalization (they have all those reluctant votes anyways), and publicly supporting legalization gives their far-right opposing party free ammunition (the DNC wants your kids to be stoned, urban crime, &c.). So it's all downside, with no upside.

"They don't win any votes by supporting legalization (they have all those reluctant votes anyways), and publicly supporting legalization gives their far-right opposing party free ammunition (the DNC wants your kids to be stoned, urban crime, &c.). So it's all downside, with no upside."

In today's polarized climate, you can say that about almost any issue whatsoever.

Compare the Democrats' reluctance to take on and lead on issues to the modus operandi of the Republicans, who have not hesitated to innovate and lead in the political sphere even when the ideas they float are laughed at and villified by their opposition and the mainstream media. Despite that they still manage to fire up their base, change the national conversation, and get their leaders elected.

Democrats don't have to have the equivalent of FOX News or conservative talk radio (they tried that with Air America[1] and failed), but they could show some backbone and actually lead rather than always reacting to Republicans framing the issues.

The nation has clearly moved on past believing in Reefer Madness style anti-cannabis propaganda, and even the risk-averse Democratic leadership should recognize that cannabis legalization is an issue with broad national support and that this is a leadership opportunity.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(radio_network)

> That Mississippi of all places legalizes marijuana means that it will probably be legalized in all 50 states within a year or two.

They did not legalize marijuana. At least not in the context of what legalizing marijuana means in 2022, which I think should be that you can walk into a marijuana store and buy marijuana like other states.

The important part being that cops can still bust you for simply having marijuana or buying marijuana, or even suspecting marijuana. Which was the big problem in the first place.

~Isn't marijuana possession decriminalized in Mississippi?~

Never mind, I see that it's decriminalized only for 1st offense and under 30 grams, but pretty harsh otherwise.

Yes, but with such restriction that it effectively still gives plenty of room for the government to be able to use marijuana as a reason to abuse people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Mississippi

Sure, Mississippi is making progress, but it is 2022, we have the internet, a decade plus of other states actually legalizing it and making it easily accessible to everyone of age, and so my expectations of “legalizing” it are much higher than they were 20 years ago.

Got it.

Evolution takes time.

Mississippi burning finally has a nicer meaning.

> That Mississippi of all places legalizes marijuana means that it will probably be legalized in all 50 states within a year or two.

Doubtful! The state legislatures in these states are generally more conservative than the population and are generally against these measures. In Wisconsin for example there is currently no chance of legalization because the state legislature is gerrymandered within an inch of its life for some of the most radical republicans in the country, despite the fact that generally the state votes for democratic representatives at the federal and state level.

bellwether*

A wether is a castrated sheep/goat.

Thanks.

That first sentence sure has a lot of unnecessary hedging. Just looking at prez elections, Mississippi hasn't gone Democrat since Jimmy Carter.

I knew someone would complain about that post no matter what I wrote, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I also wanted to honor and acknowledge the non-reactionary political and social forces working and living in Mississippi.

... and another winner: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30191586

>That Mississippi of all places legalizes marijuana means that it will probably be legalized in all 50 states within a year or two.

I highly doubt it. And at a Federal level it will never be legalized. The Biden administration has no plans and the folks involved are just playing games and never had any intention of fulfilling their promises.

The cynical analysis is Democrats can motivate voters to get out every year while it remains illegal, at the cost of ruining peoples lives.

I think it’s a generational thing… and there is no reason to think the Republicans who have demonstrated they’re much better at politics (much to my personal dismay now that the Republicans are no longer low-tax, small govt) won’t just say “hey we are for legalizing it too” as young republicans tend to not care about it being legal or not. The most accurate poll you could do is just “should marijuana be legalized” and then capture the age groups. That’ll tell you all you need to know.

Exactly.

Democrats: vote for us for universal healthcare, weed, etc.

Republicans: vote for us for gun rights, freedom, etc.

Neither plans to actually do anything at the national level. They want these carrots kept around to dangle in their constituents' faces.

Gun rights are mostly in hands of SCOTUS now and Republicans did exert a lot of effort to get their candidates there, though in a context of a more general power struggle.

"Never" is a long time. I am willing to bet that marijuana will at least be federally rescheduled to class 3-5 before 2035.

A bottle of good Spanish wine, claimable somewhere in Central Europe, if you win :)

belle weather -> Bellwether

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellwether

Oh brother.

What in the hell kind of analysis is this?

I’m betting $1000 that OP has never stepped foot in Mississippi.

“Negro voting disenfranchisement”?

I don’t think OP is talking about disenfranchisement in 2020. Historical disenfranchisement checks out with my understanding of history though.

I was talking about the historical disenfranchisement. Although some argue that the disenfranchisement of felons is similarly motivated, especially considering how easy it is to get a felony in Mississippi

I lived in Vicksburg MS in the late 80s. Went to vote with my dad once, we had to drive out into the middle of the boonies to do it. I asked him “why did they put the voting place way out here?” We lived closer to the city, most black people in our district did as well, so they put the place to vote in a place where you would have to drive 30-45 minutes to do it.

Voter repression is not just historical.

> Negro voting disenfranchisement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/05/01/mississipp...

I mean, you could take the time to refute the "analysis"...?

Oh, the mainstream media says so, so it must be true!

Paywall. Would love to comment but apparently I’m not allowed.

Your contention is that Mississippi never disenfranchised its Black citizens?

If you could lay aside your hostility, I am open to your perspective. How is what I wrote incorrect?

Mississippi's main role is to make Alabama be second from the bottom in state-by-state rankings.

I say this having grown up in Alabama and gone to university in Mississippi.

Self-hating

Got nothing to do with myself. I self-hate myself for lots of other reasons than having grown up in a particular place, as does anyone with a modicum of self awareness.

There's a lot of things I love about Alabama. Even the state government occasionally gets things right, like universal pre-K. But they have a long way to go.

I grew up in Mississippi and Louisiana, and I think OP’s take is spot-on.

Mississippi currently takes the right to vote away from 10.6% of it's voting age population (worst in the country), and 16% of it's black population (3rd worst in the country), due to past felony convictions. And there are many ways to earn yourself a felony in MS, often for things that wouldn't be elsewhere.

National averages are 2.3% and 6.3%.

https://mississippitoday.org/2020/10/19/study-11-of-all-miss...

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While there are both legal and legislative attempts to change it, as of now:

Mississippi currently has no provisions for re-enfranchising those with a past felony conviction, other than by a direct act of the legislature or governor for that specific individual (which is very rare).

Steal $1,001 of stuff when you're 18 and you'll likely never get to vote again in your life even if you never have another encounter with the wrong side of the law.

> And there are many ways to earn yourself a felony in MS, often for things that wouldn't be elsewhere.

Isn't a felony, by definition, a federal offense? How can they be different in different states?

No. A felony is just a classification of serious crime. It has nothing to do with whether it has federal or state jurisdiction.

In theory it has to do with if the prison sentence can last more than a year.

I was born and raised in Mississippi. GP isn't wrong.

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