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Comment by FireBeyond | Hacker News Reader

> Facts: Tesla was the first to introduce such wide range of safety features in every car they sold.

Please itemize these "wide range of safety features" for us that other manufacturers do not have or did not have until Tesla innovated them.

> They invest in own crash test facilities. Only Volvo is kind of on par.

Audi owns one, for just one.

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Sure, https://www.tesla.com/safety

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR2N_Q8ep8

Tesla roll out cars in generations. So just take a $40k Model 3/Y platform was introduced in 2017 and compare it with any car been introduced that year. My friend bought a BMW in 2019 for similar money, it doesn't have half of that. Maybe you can have them but you have to buy extra packages for extra money.

Tesla don't sell safety features for extra price. The only extra feature is Autopilot. But hardware, camera's , lane departure avoidance, blind spot collision warning etc in every car.

You can even take such a simple feature as forward collision warning system. When you drive it is super accurate it uses the same data and models from Autopilot to predict when there is a crash. If your slowing down dynamic is not good or the car in front/back change it dynamics it will warn you immediately. Only this feature saved me several times from collision. I'm not a good driver.

As I said in 2022 there are many car brands that catching up in some cases they doing better. And this is good.

Human is a bad, constantly distracted driver. Technology is the only way to make our life safer.

Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US.

Forward collision warning became standard in 2016 by at least ten manufacturers: Audi, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo.

Without speaking to Blind Spot, my Audi does similar intelligent things. If you change lanes next to a vehicle or just in front of it, but you have a positive speed differential, it won't activate. If there is a vehicle in your blind spot approaching you but their speed differential to you is low, it will activate later. If there's a much higher speed differential (say they're in a HOV lane, and you're in a much slower regular lane), it will activate much earlier.

> Automatic emergency braking is a required standard feature in the US.

Not currently; I just bought a 2022 Jeep Wrangler that doesn’t have anything of the sort.

It is standard on the Cherokee and Compass. On the Wrangler it is part of the Advanced Safety Group with adaptive cruise control. I think it might have to do with false positives when off-road.

It's not about how to calculate it. It' about how can you understand what's around. And Audi is not super good about it. Tesla is far better at understanding the context. This year they will switch to FSD stack. The car will not drive me itself. But security features while driver engaged will have a huge boost. And that will be available for any car that was released from 2015-17 with some minor exceptions. That's how security should be handled.

And yes for these minor exceptions Tesla offers a retrofit.

> And Audi is not super good about it.

You have proof for that statement?

I drive a 2021 Audi A1, the most basic version. From Tesla's safety page, this Audi has:

- Impact protection

- Structural integrity

- Crumple zones

- Lane departure warning/prevention

- Collision detection

- Emergency braking

The only thing it doesn't have is the blind spot sensor. But, again, it's on an entry-level car that costs easily 10 thousand dollars less than the cheapest Tesla.

Ah yeah, and all that works in Swedish conditions where Tesla's would be blind for a significant amount of time (the sun hanging just above the horizon for a prolonged time, an reflecting from a snowy/wet road).

But sure. As maxdo would have us believe, "it's hard to match what Tesla offers".

> And Audi is not super good about it.

Based on what? "Understanding what is around", and "Tesla is far better at understanding the context" - my Audi has never attempted to drive into stopped traffic.

Your vision (and not just about Audi) that all other manufacturers have these dumb, simple systems and no context of what's going on around is simply, and factually, wrong.

My Audi (and I'm not saying they are the leader, I'm just speaking on them because of my experience) has no fewer than 13 radar sensors around the vehicle and will tell me of incursions into the vehicle's "space". It will recognize that some incursions are more "concerning" than others and alert appropriately.

I really have no idea what you mean by "Audi is not super good" about safety systems.

You still haven’t provided any evidence that suggests Tesla’s have (1) more impactful safety features than other cars in the same class (2) that Tesla’s are safer in general.

Also, if your saying FSD is going finally, finally be properly released this year — I doubt it.

Your strong pro-Tesla bias and your sweeping, unfocused and unsubstantiated allegations against other car makers undermine your argument completely.

Having driven Audis for years, including an A4, S4, and a recent model A4 (and other models as rentals in Germany), I can tell you definitively that Audi _pales_ in comparison to my Telsa Model Y in terms of safety. It's not even remotely comparable. Until you've driven one on a regular basis, it's hard to explain. They are light years ahead of traditional automakers, to the point of embarrassment.

Suffice it to say, I don't foresee myself ever buying or leasing a BMW or Audi again. Telsa is so far ahead that it probably won't compute unless you've driven one for a while.

> My friend bought a BMW in 2019 for similar money, it doesn't have half of that. Maybe you can have them but you have to buy extra packages for extra money.

#1 lesson of buying cars is:

1. Don't buy German cars if you don't have to (or if you buy them, never complain about the price of their optional equipment).

The corollary is:

1". Buy Korean or Japanese cars.

Or buy Škoda which is usually "last year's VW with everything included, for a lower price" :)

Except for the Superb, which was their own design and actually a notch above anything else made at that time by VAG.

It looks like most of their cars have ~110 horsepower? Seems weak.

Depends on the car and where you're driving it.

Usually there is this thing called transmission in a car that effectively make the car able to accelerate enough for most of the situations. The only problem with having less horsepower than other cars is that the maximal achievable speed is lower. But for sure riding above 100mph is much more comfortable in other brands.

Low horsepower vehicles feel downright dangerous. Especially in the third world where executing moves quickly is very important. I suppose there is a way of driving that takes this into account but it feels so unnatural to me.

>> My friend bought a BMW in 2019 for similar money, it doesn't have half of that.

That's an incredibly bad example, because in German brands you have to pay extra for basic safety features(famously in the new Polo you have to pay extra to have more than the basic 3 airbags, I don't even know how that's allowed). Look at a brand new Peugeot/Citroen/Kia/Hyundai and you will pay less than what a Model 3 costs and get just as many safety features. Yes, all the stuff that is optional in a BMW - but look outside of Audi/Merc/BMW/Volkswagen and you will find that this stuff is also completely standard.

You just excluded 60% of luxury market. Peugeot/Citroen almost not exists in US. Kia and Hundai they will be the biggest competitors among legacy auto brands. Even though their tech is not ambitious, basically copy paste from best and make it a bit cheaper, but not very cheap :)

People shopping in the luxury market can afford options they want. Did you know that any paint other than basic black and basic white is extra cost on BMW? If your argument about luxury cars not having safety options because they cost extra money had been valid then the argument that there are only black and white BMWs also had been a sensible one.

Well, apparently Tesla's motto should be "Bad driver's car"

Literally every safety feature listed on that site is on my 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe, which brand new was thousands of dollars less than a Model 3.

> Human is a bad, constantly distracted driver. Technology is the only way to make our life safer.

And humans are infinitely worse when they have to look after a mostly-ok automation. We can’t pay attention to static things for a prolonged time.

But regarding less “clever” safety features, I agree with you.

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