> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc.
Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.
Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.
(Edit: With that said, I am reluctant to leave the dishwasher on when I'm not present for the first cycle just because of the risk of something going wrong that wasn't adequately checked for.)
I don't think that post was necessarily directed at Miele, but at designers designing for design sake in general.
> come running to unload it when it's done?
You don't? You must be one of those people that never unloads the dishwasher until you need something that's in it? weirdo! /s
Load in the evening, unload in the morning.
Apps used: 0.
Would be useful if the machine could select and load the washing itself from the basket, I'd use that app.
If it has a screen then surely it's possible to show its current status.
Or, and bear with me because this is a really crazy idea... how about a single LED to show it's busy?
And check out the new Ridiculous wash cycle!
The jokes practically write themselves.
This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss.
For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent.
1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.
The only UI a dishwasher needs is "wash" and "dishes in here are still clean don't put in dirty dishes yet." I've yet to see a dishwasher do the latter with the necessary nuance.
As long as you unload it instead of fishing a single item out this works pretty well for telling the clean state.
This is the challenge. Allow for partial unload without displaying "ready for dirty dish load."
Ultimately I think it has to be performed by a manually operated sign, which can easily get out of sync with the dishwasher state.
https://www.amazon.com/Dishwasher-Indicator-Dishwashers-Home...
First of all, if you're a UX designer sorry for being a little snarky to you. A fair amount of it is probably unfair.
Second, maybe you can shed some light on why that kind of UX updates happen. As somebody else wrote in another comment "designers designing for design sake". Maybe it's not.
Third, maybe you can enlighten us developers about the circumstances when designers think that developers develop for development sake. I'm sure it happens.
Do never connect things to any network - and especially the internet - if it is not required for operation.
What worries are people which blindly request "more digitalization". We need resilience, not digitalization! Once a unnamed person complained about the fact the the Boeing 747-400 still gets flight data updates with a floppy. They argued it should use WiFi and central updates from a server and so on. NOT! The floppy allows control, save operation and flexible updates. Don't even add an USB-Port, this just allows someone to roast the electronics with a cheap USB-Gadget.
Just let programmers program more code doesn't make good programs. Actually it is vice versa.
Seriously I don’t understand the need at all to have your kitchen be connected to wifi at all. Not everything needs to be quantified, unless you use measuring cups for cooking.
Second I can’t trust manufacturers to rush something out the door to “fix it in post”
That said while I do disagree with the above consumers, I don't care about remote control but I would quite like remote status updates from various appliances (is the door locked, is the washing cycle finished, has the fridge been left open, etc.)
I suspect the only value most consumers see in these features is lower retail pricing.
But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.
Anecdata: In my wive's house, we have a Miele wasching machine from the year 2000. Its been used daily. It is as good as on the day it was purchased - quiet, and does not vibrate even when spinning at its max 1600 rpm. Its pretty amazing.
I believe when it was last cleaned they did install new firmware -- though to be entirely hoenest, I doubt a lot of people really know or care how efficient their wasching machines are -- water is way too cheap.
The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.
That said, even the Bosch needed a new heat pump after 3 years which was an adventure in unreasonably complex disassembly.
I rinse things pretty well beforehand and use quick wash and it works well.
Overall I'm really happy with this machine though; worth the pretty penny it costs.
Seriously, you too can save a bunch of electricity and wasted time by pre-washing stuff before putting it in the dishwasher.
I do agree that it sounds like satire, though.
> There is no need to rinse items under running water!
Dishwashers already pre-wash with an initial rinse cycle, the whole point is that they do the washing for you. It's also a whole lot more efficient in terms of water waste.
The problem is when you don't give that first cycle any powder to work with, ie. if you're using pods.
That is really interesting, as I do use pods. I need to look into this more.
More generally, I have had a lot more success with not needing to re-wash things if I rinse before hand (but I don't have a miele).
I believe the real trick is not to overfill the machine with dishes, and ensure your dishes are arranged properly.
This. Filling a dishwasher is an art of binpacking in itself. I'm pretty satisfied by my Bosch one, unless it is just a1-2 cycle before asking for the cleaning cycle, 95% of the times everything come up perfectly clean, even with the "eco" program. When something comes out dirty (if everything was properly placed), usually it will nag you to clean the dishwasher on the next cycle or the other.
Some people put the dirtiest dishes in the history of humanity in their washer and then complain it doesn’t clean very well. A quick rinse with water to get the chunks, or the really caked on stuff off works wonders.
- Don't use pods
- Fill the main and prewash cups every time. The prewash is intended to be used every time, not just when the dishes are exceptionally dirty.
- Run the hot water in the attached sink to full heat to ensure the washer gets filled with hot water
As an aside: Dawn Powerwash is flat out amazing in general, especially for really crusty/baked on stuff. Spray some on, come back in 15 minutes and it will more than likely wipe right off - if it hasn't dissolved whatever was crusted on and ran off already. If you haven't tried it and it's available in your area give it a try! Amazing degreaser. Works on laundry with grease stains, carpet, oil stains on the driveway (mop up with kitty litter/towels; don't wash down the street!) and all kinds of other non-kitchen uses too.
My parents had a GE dishwasher that auto dosed a liquid paste dishwashing detergent. It worked great, only dispensing what the dishwasher sensed the dirt load called for. For some reason my mom hated it and they replaced that dishwasher with one that they now use pods with. Sigh - I don't think she liked the feeling of not being in control.
We humans can be so annoying sometimes.
EDIT: that GE also did it without requiring a wifi connection or firmware updates :p
The big one that drives me nuts on new cars are all the auto start/stop at idle systems. They eat car batteries and starters (increase wear from oil starvation on startup too - consumer car engines are not positively lubricated; pressure has to pump back up every time the engine starts) and there is no way to disable them other than pushing a button every time you start your car (or hacking around with the wiring), but I'm sure they are critical in obtaining higher gas milage requirements so expect them to proliferate. It's crap that happens when you focus on one metric - gas milage - to the exclusion of "the big picture" such as total carbon footprint over the life of the car including the manufacturing and replacement costs/environmental impact of replacing prematurely worn out parts from "energy efficient" design decisions.
The only time it ever fails is when something blocks a rotor and half a tray doesn't get any water on the underside.
But I don't think spraying more, hotter water at the clean half will help that.
Or it is treated by the same algorithm like all the other cleaning powders, which is: "mix with water then spray through nozzles". Strangly enough, this has worked great for decades without firmware updates. For the longest time it even worked without firmware.
If I want more, I put in 2 tabs.
If I want none, I put in no tab.
If I want my dishes to smell like soup, I put in a buillon cube. (Not recommended by whoever built the Dishwasher)
Ah, fantastic. "Now that we have updated the firmware, we have determined that you need the new proprietary cleaning powder. For your convenience, the dishwasher is disabled until you supply the proper cleaning powder."
My dishwasher you just dump any boxed powder in and I can use any brand I want. I'm assuming that for a machine this expensive and geared at long-term usage Miele would have the same capabilities, and it's not like a Keurig thing where the user is forced to use individual pods.
But if that's the case then I'm not sure how this would work unless the user enters a config setting or something for what soap they're commonly using. Water hardness the washer could measure itself, I guess.
Edit: another commenter below (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30147979) links to the manual (https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/10546880-000-01_1...), which answers most of these questions.
No.
But they do have an auto-dosing capability on some models that take a disk and dispense the right amount of powder for the given wash.
Which? reviewed this and concluded it's a gimmick: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/09/is-this-miele-dishwashe... . I agree with this verdict.
The washing machine auto-dosing though... that isn't as bad, being more cost-efficient overall.
My take on it all: Miele dishwashers are so-so... their washing machines and fridges excellent, the ovens above average, the hobs exceptional, the hoods well made but over-priced.
Another gimmick that machine has, it's auto-opening at the end of the cycle in order to vent off steam.
I had many different dishwashers over the years, but Miele one is so far the best I ever had
I don't think there's a terribly strong incentive for Miele to actively break their customers' deployed machines, since those customers might buy a Bosch next time, but there isn't a terribly strong incentive for them to improve them either.
There is a strong incentive for Miele to find ways to sell their customers' personal information, for example to insurance companies, collection agencies, or police forces, and this is functionality that can be added later in a firmware update.
Better to leave update functionality under the control of the people who are most directly affected by it: the users.
Real-world examples:
(1) Download firmware, stick it on a USB drive, put USB drive in device, go through arcane menus or button press sequence to do an update. I have two devices that work this way, an aftermarket car stereo Bluetooth adapter and a (musical) keyboard.
(2) Install some app (and maybe a driver) on a Windows computer, connect device to computer, and have the app push the firmware to the device. I have an old Garmin GPS watch that does it this way. (Which is extra annoying because the watch has an Android companion app which communicates with the watch over Bluetooth, and it can tell you an update is available but can't apply it.)