Hacker News Reader

Comment by ryanmarsh | Hacker News Reader

What’s with all the “Bank of <bank name> Trustee” jets?

The US has a relatively weird structure where trusts are one of the best ways to meet the FAA's requirements for ownership while also hiding certain ownership details: https://www.hef.ru.nl/~pfk/aircraftGalleries/organisation-Ai...

Most of the time you see it used is when a lessor has taken an aircraft back from an airline after the lease has ended for some reason, and it becomes a holding structure until the aircraft is leased again to another operator. The financials of airliner operation make it feasible for most airlines to have a mixed fleet of owned and leased aircraft.

But in this case Wilmington Trust is a fairly large aircraft lessor in its own right: https://library.wilmingtontrust.com/corporate-institutional/... and https://centreforaviation.com/data/profiles/lessors/wilmingt...

For instance here's an Airbus A350 that was used by LATAM, then returned to Wilmington during the COVID-19 drawdown of flying, and is being taken into service by Delta: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/airbus-a350-900-n982d...

This is actually a flaw in the tracker's logic though, in that it's probably using an outdated data source that's still showing that intermediary registration holder rather than the current operator.

Ultra rich people that hide their identities through anonymous bank entities. They are totally not the people that really rule the world rather than the politicians that most people think are in charge.

Its also one of the reasons that despite private planes being one of the biggest contributors to climate change nothing will ever be done about it. Those rich people love their freedom to hop around anywhere in the world at a moments notice.

Super cool project. I was thinking about doing something similar at one time but I was too lazy.

I don't think that's right for all of them. I suspect it's the company that owns the lease or loan on a plane that's being financed. For example, the current first listing is an A319-112 with the number A997E5. According to PlaneFinder that's operated by American Airlines[0]. A lot of them are very large planes, which wouldn't really make sense for a private jet. Some are smaller, though, and are probably being financed by the ultra-wealthy.

0: https://planefinder.net/data/aircraft/N717UW

No, ultra rich people hide their identities through a corporation, not a trust. When you purchase large capital items with a bank’s help, the ownership usually looks like that. If you finance the aircraft as an ultra rich person, the ownership will probably also look like that. It’s completely normal and is a large proportion of aircraft ownership structures. A double-digit percentage of pretty much all major carriers’ fleets are titled in this way. Just like your payoff quote with your bank, when an airline finishes paying, the title is transferred. This arrangement will explain all but one or two of the trustees that will appear on this camera for the entire time it exists.

So if your car is titled to a bank because you have a loan on it, would you say you’re ultra rich and hiding your identity? I’m with you on the rah-rah eat the rich vibe but at least make sure you’re shooting downrange.

I've had the misfortune of being in banking much of my life and met many POS rich people that do this kind of stuff. Trust's most certainly can be used to hide your identity. Banks are more than willing to let rich people leave their names in the bank trust as a service to hide their identity. Trusts are not used as a financing product, they are a wealth management tool.

I'll give you a challenge. Find another vehicle title that has "trust" on it other than a yacht or private jet. Time saver, you won't.

It's to hide the owners identity. I don't know why people are arguing with me about this. Trust's are a wealth management tool that provide a number of services including hiding a persons identity.

You are correct that private jets are often owned by organizations including trusts in order to obscure their true ownership, but many of the jets on this site that are labeled as being owned by 'something something Trustee' are in fact commercial airliners owned and operated by major airlines, which seems to be pretty common. Here are some that I found in just a few seconds of clicking planes in the air over my own state on ADS-B Exchange:

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N338DN

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N330DX

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N356FR

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N324DX

Both of you are making valid points, I don't get why either is seen as an argument. Your original comment was one with a strong sense of anger at the rich, and it is not misplaced. People and corporations hide their wealth with many different instruments, and one step to achieving equity would be to put all of this in the open.

My grandfather had his house and car in a trust for years so when he died, everything immediately went right to my mom. There was some concern about ex-wives and dirtbag relatives trying to take things in probate so a trust helped keep everything safe. He wasn't that wealthy but he had enough in assets that it was worth hiring a lawyer to draw up the trust.

> Its also one of the reasons that despite private planes being one of the biggest contributors to climate change nothing will ever be done about it.

Aviation as a whole is responsible for 3.5% of climate change [0]

So while the impact on a per-person is very high, it's a tiny amount compared to the mass impact of international shipping, heating, and even commercial planes.

[0] https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2667/...

3.5% by weight. However I've seen some research that indicates that due to the nature of it being dumped in upper atmosphere and better distribution it may actually be a much larger effect.

OK lets call it 35%.

How much of that is scheduled and cargo flights, and how much is it private jets?

I'm just looked at the planes crossing the Atlantic at the moment on FR24, I couldn't see any private planes, but can see dozens of scheduled ones.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com