What happens when millions of electric car batteries get old? | Hacker News Reader

What happens when millions of electric car batteries get old?

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33 pointsacmegeek16 comments

A: They get recycled.

There aren't many EV battery recycling plants now because there aren't many 15 year old EVs.

That response seems a bit too dismissive when the entire OP is about how recycling capacity/capability for these items is sorely lacking. Many things that are much easier to recycle, for which the technology to do so already exists, are in fact not recycled because it's not economically viable. Why would it be any easier for items full of volatile and/or toxic components? Responses which amount to "magic it away" without even addressing the question of how to solve or avoid the various technological and economic problems are incurious and non-constructive.

I don't think anyone has to argue any of those things when the alternative is to keep pumping carbon into the atmosphere.

The building is burning and people are trying to pump the brakes to discuss the most efficient and clean way to put out the fire. I don't care if it turns all your (and my) papers to mush, we need to be spraying water everywhere immediately.

Of course we should put out the fire, but does that mean we should just ignore the mess that's left behind? If I were as given to constructing strawmen as you seem to be, I'd put those words in your mouth, but that wouldn't be constructive. As we've learned from decades of chemical-factory fires (or WTC if you need a more specific example), the aftermath can present interesting problems in its own right.

The OP is not about foregoing use of these batteries. It's about taking the next step forward, and how we still don't have a sufficient answer for what that step should be. Try to keep up. It's a topic that deserves more than a hand-wave.

Yeah, they go to https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/ or similar. Probably grid -> Redwood.

This is not yet a completely solved problem but by the time it's serious it will be solved.

... if solving it is more profitable than shipping the toxic waste to $poor_country.

Batteries are not like plastic which can be manufactured on the cheap due to the abundant avability of resources. Natural lithium resources are available sparingly and mining it is not substantially easier than recycling it. It's like recycling aluminium and other metals, just the process consumes way more energy than it would be feasible. There are some advances already: https://spectrum.ieee.org/simple-energyefficient-recycling-p...

They won't be recycled if its cheaper to manufacture new.

This is why we need car batteries that are designed to be recycled. Solid state batteries vs sandwiched materials.

unfortunately this is still the biggest problem, plans and niceties...

unless companies like tesla themselves (are probably forced to) recycle the whole shebang we're going to get nowhere fast.

If the batteries are a significant percentage of the ev's overall value, what happens to the entire goddam car when you have to replace the batteries?

Some people blow them up

With Prius batteries, there’s a whole refurb scene where people buy the whole pack, crack it open, find the underperforming cells, and replace those. And that’s for a very small battery. So I would guess the same will be done for EV packs, since “most of the time” the cells will wear unevenly and the whole pack won’t be bad at once. If you do need a pack replacement after 10 years though, you probably get more power and range and lighter weight, so you get an upgraded car at the same time.

I doubt car manufacturers would let that happen. They will drm the batteries because safety and you will be forced to buy a new one.

Likely true, though the forbidden refurb batteries could be reused in conversions like these[1]. I am tempted to try a conversion of some silly old car (like my high-school Opel GT) but on the downside you don't get airbags, crumple zones etc. to go with your 21st-century electric motors and batteries...

1: https://electrek.co/2019/08/27/startup-electric-retrofits-te...

I always thought that would be a perfect car for an electric conversion.

I forget the exact model, but the manufacturer told some guy who owned a hybrid he needed a new battery. The cars on board diagnostic was saying the battery had no remaining capacity.

He carefully disassembled it, cleaned all the internal junctions, put it back together and the car worked fine afterwards.

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