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Comment by oemera | Hacker News Reader

I'm little confused that this is a popular news at HN. They fight for Internet stuff but they also deny that there was an Holocaust in Germany.

For me this is pretty bad news to hear that they will get into the parliament.

Source for denying the holocaust: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

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To be fair that was only one member and that member has been thrown out of the party a long time ago.

Also, while I didn't follow it too closely, I suspect it was more a case of extreme free thinking (question everything, don't believe anything) rather than right wing extremism.

I don't think this is valid criticism of the party in its current state. If you can't give any evidence other than a post from two years ago based on a Twitter message (!), we can assume that, if someone denied the Holocaust, that was the opinion of a single individual. All established parties have nutters; what counts is how the parties deal with them once the nutters make their nutty views public.

It's based on more than merely a Twitter statement, and as far as I can tell, the guy is still a member (though he has no more official responsibilities). Aaron König, another prominent (in his case: former) pirate had his own crude and/or right-wing extremist views. He now spreads them from a new populist right-wing platform of the Geert Wilders kind. Despicable people, all around.

All that said, I agree that it's unfair to condemn the PP because of those individuals. They're far from the norm.

Here you have an other one from Bodo Thiesen, who is still active in the Pirate Party:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

the Pirate Party is a very liberal party and as such attracts all kinds of people with varying viewpoints. Im pretty sure that holocaust denial is not the norm.

Even if it would be just A SINGLE PERSON who is denying the holocaust we should fought it. But I see that some people want to have better internet rights and willing to forget the most tragic event in the human history.

You can down vote me as much as you like but I will never give my vote to a party who has member who are just lying like that.

AND YEAH he is still active in the Piraten party. Source from december 2010: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

But I see that some people want to have better internet rights and willing to forget the most tragic event in the human history.

So you'd support a party who censored its members' and didn't support freedom of expression? You're right, maybe PP isn't right for you.

Freedom of Expression is one thing but lying and denying a horrific fact is another. Are you saying that it is ok to denying the holocaust in Germany only cause every one should freedom of expression? I'm no friend of censorship but this has nothing to do with censoring this is just to protect the truth and the history. Such an horrific event shouldn't be forgotten neither should it be "over simplified to show it as it was ok cause there was no holocaust at all"! If you think this kind of stuff is ok then you should really really overthink what you are doing there. I would like to see how you want to explain the families who lost members in the holocaust this "freedom of expression" statement!

Freedom of Expression is one thing but lying and denying a horrific fact is another. Are you saying that it is ok to denying the holocaust in Germany only cause every one should freedom of expression?

OK? No, I think it's a terrible thing and the world would be better off without him. BUT, I believe in Freedom of Expression, which forces me to defend his right to say such barbarities.

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

I'm no friend of censorship but this has nothing to do with censoring this is just to protect the truth and the history. That's what every censor says. "We're just defending the public decency", "We're just protecting the rights of X".

You protect the truth with facts and arguments, not censorship.

Such an horrific event shouldn't be forgotten neither should it be "over simplified to show it as it was ok cause there was no holocaust at all"!

If you don't want it to be forgotten, it's your job to divulge it. To show to people what really happened. Silencing others makes you no better than any totalitarian government.

I would like to see how you want to explain the families who lost members in the holocaust this "freedom of expression" statement!

First, that's a terrible argument. Secondly, I lost family members because the fascist censors didn't like what they had to say.

Lastly, I'd give them the words of one of the sons of an Holocaust survivor:

"(...) If you want to know the Holocaust deniers in your midst, you can find some of them here, out in the open. You can confront them, debate them, call them out as they go about their lives, or ignore them. Suppressing these groups or individuals will not make them disappear.

Personally, I am against making any form of speech a crime, unless it is clearly linked to acts of violence or the planning of acts of violence. The way to fight speech that you think is bad or offensive is with more speech, better speech. (...)"

(http://techpresident.com/blog-entry/facebook-free-speech-and...

i agree to your first statement, but i won´t dismiss any organisation just because one member is a dumb-ass.

and honestly, the source you´re citing is a bit offside.

official statements are; http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

however, its a young party and until this they weren´t properly set up to deal with such a case. i can´t understand why they haven´t kicked him out so far but according to a current interview of a member of the PPs federal board this will happen soon; http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js...

> I will never give my vote to a party who has member who are just lying like that

If you are going to base your vote on one extremist member, you won't be able to vote for any party!

There's a party fighting for freedom of all information of any kind and someone who criticizes that there's one exception for freedom of opinion immediately becomes a denier? What are you? A zionist? A Nazi-hunter? Give me a break.

If you want to fight fascists and become one yourself, you failed ..

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