I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for appearing to do that too. I've left the text up because that seems more honest. ]
I do not want to seek to diminish your very real anxiety and panic issues.
But you should be aware that there is no actual reduced inflow of air due to mask wearing, certainly not one that you would detect physiologically. In 2020, there were numerous demonstrations of this, both with actual measurements (lung volume, blood oxygen etc.) and with more anecdotal illustrations such as vigorous exercise even while wearing multiple masks.
Your mental conditions matter, and I hope you are able find ways to live reasonably happily without too much anxiety.
My psychiatrist, therapist and gp all confirmed this. Frankly, you should trust people with these actual conditions. We are living it, you aren't.
I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without air circulation.
You're right. I think I meant that examining my body's responses can give me a quicker realization of "something is wrong (meaning my anxiety is out-of-proportion)" than examining my mental processes can; because I can get trapped in that anxious loop of thinking about thinking, and worrying about worrying. So it doesn't "lie" to me, that way.
But the only way to truly get over anxiety is like you say, you've got to realize that all of it is exaggerated and false, and you've got to just "let it go." It really does get easier. The pandemic has made it harder again and I resent it.
> I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small.
This is the key point. The change in airflow and oxygen is extremely small. None of that means your mental state does not change when wearing a mask, but it is probably useful to understand that this is not due to a physiological process involving less oxygen/air.
[ EDIT: one possible answer is change in the CO2 conditions and/or thermal conditions: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ ]
[ EDIT 2: I was wrong. Please see original comment + edit at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 ]
>I tried to explicitly state that I believe that your mental experiences are real and worthy of attention and care.
I appreciate that. But you should be aware that people with anxiety hear this all the time. "What you believe is true matters. And is important. Now, having said that..." it isn't helpful and not really all that respectful, really. I can tell you with 100% certainty that restricting my breathing gives me anxiety. Not the idea of it, but the actual act itself. And that I feel less air entering my body, and more anxiety, when I wear masks. Other people have said the exact same thing happens to them in this thread. It's your choice who to believe.
Edit: saw your edit. Maybe it's not "oxygen," per se, and another chemical is to blame. That would be helpful, if I knew the exact mechanism! But unfortunately, not very useful in solving the mask/anxiety issue. I've opted just to get a shitty mask (in medical terms) that will suit me, for my health needs.
I was wrong.
Surely there is, at minimum, an unstated variable here like "effort required to inhale the same volume of air"? Or the composition of the air?
I'm not an expert in this area, but as someone who "feels" like I'm getting less oxygen and is willing to consider that my body is tricking me, help me understand.
edit: I shouldn't have to say this, but I'll mention I'm vaccinated+boosted and have complied with the mask mandates. I just don't understand these unintuitive claims.
(Note that not noticing it is not the same as not experiencing it.)
It causes a great amount of anxiety for me, and literally feels like torture. I don't care about what lung volume/blood oxygen "studies" say.
My gym has gone back and forth between masks being required or not with the case count. I know I've read everything about airflow being fine, and there being no reduced oxygen intake, but having worked out with and without a mask depending on location in the past 2 years I can attest anecdotally as somebody with no health problems that even if only anecdotal it is way more taxing/difficult to recover breath when working out with a mask on, and can be borderline anxiety/torture especially after very intense sets or cardiovascular effort.
It easily takes me at least a couple more minutes to recover my breath/rest in between very hard sets of heavy squats for instance as compared to when not wearing a mask.
I don't think I've generally seen that transfer over to performance without one though.
Huh? From https://weintraubcenter.dentistry.ucla.edu/n95-respirators-t...
>Pressure drop is a measure of the resistance that the air meets as it flows through the respirator filter and into the mask. This is important because the pressure drop affects the comfort and breathability of the mask- specifically a lower pressure drop is desirable as it translates to increased breathability and thus comfort.
> On average, those that have high filtration efficiency are also the ones with the largest pressure drop, which make it difficult to breath.
I'm aware not everyone is wearing a N95 or better respirator, but the metric applies to all masks.
Depends on how you measure it and what you mean by physiologically detect. Generally, the resistance of breathing through a ("good") mask is not automatically detectable, but does exist and one could detect it if they are attentive. Your body tends to increase tidal volume and/or respiration rate because of the rebreathing of the stale under the mask. There are certainly studies that measure the physiological effects, such that we set 15 minute and 8 hour limits on CO2 exposure etc.
Granted it's largely not an issue, but it's not necessarily correct to say that it offers no restriction and no physiological changes.
"EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask."
You're breathing in less air, and more CO2. There is no way it's not going to have an impact.
https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2021/04/26/summit-hs-runne...
it should be beyond obvious to any neutral observer that putting a covering over one's nose and mouth will affect their breathing airflow, especially so when exercising. you don't even have to try it yourself to intuit this, it's just common sense. but once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected, especially if you're actually going out of your way to ensure that you've sealed the mask on your face properly.
I don't say this to shame or disparage you specifically, but instead to point out how people, broadly, are having their thoughts programmed, on a massive scale, to truly believe things that are obviously contradictory to reality.
this should be very concerning to everyone.
I don't agree with that. As noted, blood oxygen levels for most people are not changed by mask wearing (presumably, most of us just add the extra 20-30% effort to keep the airflow up and/or were nowhere near close to requiring the full breath).
> once you have tried it, there should be zero doubt in your mind that your breathing airflow is affected
As some comments in the main thread here have noted, masks like the 3M Aura+ (which I've been wearing for a few months now) really do not have much impact on breathing airflow. My actual experience of wearing KN95's and N95's even while running is that I do not feel that my airflow is impacted at all. My mistake was to combine that actual personal experience together with data on physiological state while wearing masks (not changed much in most people) and make the false claim that there was no impact on airflow.
Some of those comments noted that the construction and fit of the mask can make a huge difference - damp cloth masks, for example, do seem to have an outsize impact. I have never used cloth masks during the pandemic, and I live in an exceedingly dry climate, so people I know who have worn them have not commented much on the effects of them being damp.
So, no, I do not agree that what I said (even while actually false) was "obviously contradictory to reality".
> presumably, most of us just add the extra 20-30% effort to keep the airflow up and/or were nowhere near close to requiring the full breath
how can this be considered negligible under any circumstances? even if the observed difference in effort required seems negligible for you personally, why would it be the same for everyone? I can think of many, many reasons why 20–30% additional effort to breathe can be extremely impactful for many different people with different personal circumstances.
Put a tennis racket in front of your face. Does it impede airflow? I think the answer is clearly no.
Put a plastic bag over the your nose and mouth? Does it impede airflow? I think the answer is clear yes.
Put a food sieve over your mouth and nose. Does it impede airflow? I think the answer is probably no, but there's room for doubt.
Clearly, something placed over your mouth and nose does not necessarily impede airflow - it depends on the properties of the material it is made of. Some materials obviously have no impact, some have a lot, others are inbetween.
So the question is: why you conclude without careful measurement that a given mask would impede airflow? Presumably you have some intuition about the material and what you know about its properties ("It stops X percent of all particles above a certain size!") that lead you to conclude that it's somewhere between a food sieve and plastic bag, rather than a tennis racket and a food sieve. But there's no "common sense" here. How can Goretex fabric allow water vapor to pass freely, but not allow water in liquid phase to pass at all? You cannot explain that using common sense, but again, you have some intuition that you can use common sense to reason about the properties of masks.
I should also stress that the 20-30% number comes from a 2009 paper on the reduction in airflow. The increase in breathing effort could be less than that, unchanged or more than that, depending on a large number of factors. Example: sitting on a sofa in a comfortable temperature and being very relaxed ... you are already breathing fairly shallowly, and the increase required to overcome whatever effect the mask has will move you only to a condition you are in very regularly anyway, and so will likely be unnoticeable (there's also the "X percent of a small number is a small number" aspect). By contrast, if you are exercising near V02max levels and in excellent cardiovascular condition, you are likely already breathing almost as hard as you can, and so breathing harder due to reduced airflow is likely to challenging to impossible.
This just means that you are very fit. Just like athletes sometimes train on purpose with air restricting masks.
It's like saying "I can lift 200 pounds easily, so people complaining that they are struggling with that amount are mistaken".
The FFP3 euro standard (N99 equiv) mask I'm wearing is very noticeable to me and tiring if I walk fast for example.