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Comment by Nextgrid | Hacker News Reader

In my experience in the UK, the average startup salary for a senior engineer is around 80k. Not disagreeing that they might be awash with capital, but they don't seem to be willing to share that capital.

Edit: in my figure above that's 80k pounds but from my perspective it doesn't make a big difference for someone living here whose living costs would also be paid in pounds and the prices of most goods (in terms of the number, ignoring the currency) equivalent to the US when you'd expect it to be cheaper given the value of our currency being higher.

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I guess it depends on the stage, and funding level.

Those that have raised a large seed round (e.g. YC companies), or Series A, $100K USD for a senior engineer is pretty common.

Most of the remote jobs advertised here will be expecting that, including the UK companies:

https://www.workatastartup.com/jobs/l/engineering

Disclosure: YC Company in London. Not hiring, but our peers are hiring with these kind of salaries in mind. Not happily mind you - employers never like it when the market favours job-seekers!

80k what? £80k is more than $100k. Or did you mean that the UK average is the GBP equivalent of $80k?

I indeed meant £80k, but my argument is more around the purchasing power and lifestyle the money will give you. The currency doesn't really matter in that context as everything you buy will also be in pounds and the unit prices for most things (except specific industries like healthcare) don't seem that different and property prices are also through the roof.

Taxes also seem extremely high. I'm not sure of the situation in the US but 80k£ here already lands you in upper end of the tax brackets despite the rent on a decent 1-bedroom Central London apartment being ~50% of your monthly take home.

If you live in a large city, like London, yes. But for a remote job, you're no longer tied to doing that.

There's obviously this phenomenon of high-salaried tech workers moving farther out of high cost of living places like London and San Francisco.

You can still retire to Costa Rica if you find a way to save a good percentage of that money. And, like everything else you import from China, a Creality CR-30 3DPrintMill costs the same in London as it does in San Francisco.

Not that it makes things better, but 80K doesn't put you in the highest tax bracket: you pay a higher marginal rate over £100k because you start to lose your personal allowance, plus there's a 45% rate at 150k+

Fair enough, I wasn't aware it gets even worse, but the current level of tax at 80k£ already feels extremely unfair when it's barely enough to rent in Central London.

London is one of the most expensive cities in the world - plenty of much cheaper (and to me much nicer) cities in the UK.

£2,000 a month after rent and commuting costs (if you live in Central London you presumably walk or bike to work) is hardly "barely enough", as a single person.

£80k is $108k. You get a net (before student loan deductions) of £55,092.76, you keep 69%.

As a single person on $108k, you'd pay $31,779 in San Franciso in Federal, FICA and State tax, you keep 71%

Whether the extra $1847 a year of taxes is "extremely unfair" is anyones guess, but at least you won't go bankrupt from medical costs.

There's a c.60% marginal rate at 50k-60k too if you have a couple of kids

£80k is £4600 post tax per month, £4200 after student loan, and is higher than about 95% of the country (about about 97.5% in 2019)

£2100 will get you far more than a 1 bed flat.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/119215184

for example is a 2 bed flat by Elephant and Castle less than a mile from the South Bank for £1733

I suspect you mean that figure for a London Salary. Up here in the cold North there are few people who make that sort of money. I've worked at a company where the director(s) didn't make £80k.

I'm reminded of this

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-to-be-poor-on-80...

Which appeared after someone came on Question Time complaining that £80k wasn't really that high

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's much more expensive to hire an employee in the UK than in the US.

I'd actually be pretty surprised if the fully loaded cost of an employee in the UK was higher than an equivalent in the US.

Mind you - I'd love to see hard figures!

In the UK on an £80k ($108k) salary an employer would have to pay 89,820.08 ($120222), plus pension contributions and the employee would receive £55,092.76 ($73740)

In California someone paid $120k Gross I think would receive $79548, before healthcare deductions (optional private healthcare in the UK is typically about $700 a year for a single person of working age, in the US I believe premiums (employer and employee) are more like $7000 a year)

Overall at the $120k range it seems a similar cost in the UK vs California. Office space in London is probably higher than in SF, but that doesn't apply for remote workers.

The real money is in the US - their wages dwarf UK's and Western Europe's programmers' salaries no matter how you look at it.

I wonder why would that be or where would that extra money would be going given we're talking pre-tax figures.

For one, UK employers would pay an additional £10k in Employers National Insurance on an £80k salary. https://listentotaxman.com/?year=2021&taxregion=uk&age=0&tim...

(Partially answering your "why", not commenting on whether the original statement is true.)

For the US

"the average health insurance cost for employers was $16,253 annually"

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/cost-of-employer-sponsored-h...

Now some employers in the UK add private health care as a benefit of course.

Company private health plans in the UK don't cost anything like those in the US, though: They don't need top cover everything because the NHS will pick up things they don't.

> Now some employers in the UK add private health care as a benefit of course.

https://job-prices.co.uk/private-health-insurance-cost/

Average is £74 a month, or $1200 a year.

It's much more expensive to hire in the US than UK, for engineering in particular.

Context - We have a UK company with US parent, and choose to hire in the UK for this reason.

Do you mean expensive in terms of taxes, the market commending a higher salary, or other reasons?

> Do you mean expensive in terms of taxes, the market commending a higher salary, or other reasons?

The market. The US market for high-salaried knowledge work always pays more, whether is Tech, Finance, Legal etc.

In general, if you're a high-earner/rich, America is a great place to be. If you're poor, the UK offers more support and protections, but this is a digression.

Given the same salaries in both countries, it's probably more expensive to hire that employee in the US given that the US firm is expected to pay for fairly expensive health insurance.

UK firms pay for private health insurance too, but that's supplemental insurance on top of NHS coverage.

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