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> I want a better sleep schedule but not bad enough to put it into practice

This sums up the issue. Most people could get decent sleep if they wanted to or even made a basic effort, but their current poor-sleep compromise isn’t bad enough to make them want to give anything up. Or they don’t understand what they’re losing because it has been so long since they tried a reasonable sleep schedule.

> That implies my personal projects make enough money to have a family on. Not true now so the grind continues.

Consider giving up the side projects for a month or two. Side projects are one of the topics where people think they’re going to miss it more than they actually do. A month or two of total disconnectedness won’t sink your side projects, but it’s long enough to test the waters of a healthier sleep schedule.

You may find that after getting your sleep under control, your daily efficiency and energy levels improve such that you’re getting your work done faster, spending more quality time with your spouse, and ultimately freeing up a nice slot of usable free time in the day that could spend on side projects without wrecking your sleep schedule.

>> I want a better sleep schedule but not bad enough to put it into practice

> This sums up the issue. Most people could get decent sleep if they wanted to or even made a basic effort

Agreed.

> but their current poor-sleep compromise isn’t bad enough to make them want to give anything up. Or they don’t understand what they’re losing because it has been so long since they tried a reasonable sleep schedule.

I think that just like with Diet or Exercise with sleep the feedback loops are longer/delayed and that stops people from engaging in overwhelmingly healthy behavior - because the habit is harder to form.

I have never been efficient enough with more sleep. The hours simply disappear into the ether.

Running on 4-7 hours of sleep (with intermittent 10 hour catch up days) has let me build and launch a lot of stuff.

- https://fakeyou.com

- A vtubing engine for virtual production (film, improv, streaming)

- https://storyteller.io , tools for streamers (in-stream TTS, deepfaked gifs, a voxel camera), which should be done this weekend

I don't think I could prepare for YC or any other sort of funding any other way, short of quitting my other responsibilities. There's not enough time in the day, so you have to give up something.

I'll sleep more when I'm funded or when I'm dead, basically.

>> if they wanted to or even made a basic effort

For a great many people their sleep schedule is not something they control. You have to work when your boss needs you to work. The specific hours you sleep on a given day will change randomly (ie I had to be in at 0500 rather than my normal 0630 today).

>> such that you’re getting your work done faster

So? Lots of people (most people?) work in jobs where speed is largely irrelevant. Working faster just means doing or being assigned more work, not going home sooner or getting any more free time for sleep.

I think that there's a reasonable definition of "healthy sleep schedule" in "any sleep schedule you can maintain without an alarm clock (and also maybe stimulants).

If we go by that metric, then the entire modern world has been built such that nobody will have a "healthy sleep schedule". I have to start work when I start work regardless of when I would be best suited to rising without my morning alarm.

Is this an objection or just a corrolary?

Observation more than anything. Countless jobs that people make a living doing have their schedules set by a larger bureaucracy. This leads to people needing to set their life schedules around that job, rather than their natural rhythms.

> when my wife goes to sleep is when I feel like it's finally quiet enough to get some programming done

I tend to do this when I want to work on my hobbies, but then the relationship with my wife suffers. We enjoy going to bed together, it's part of the ritual of being a couple. I tried going to bed, then after she falls asleep getting up, but by then I'm too sleepy myself.

That's also a dimension. I feel bad that she goes to bed alone when I stay up. We say good night and it's nice but then I leave to stay up. It feels off balance from my perspective, although she is used to it and has adapted.

I have a similar schedule, but go to bed slightly earlier. I sit next to my wife in bed and code on my laptop for 2 hours before sleep. It's kind of the best of both worlds, but ergonomically imperfect. I'm definitely more productive at my desk, but have the same issues as you describe.

That seems like a really bad idea. You’re setting yourself up for sleep problems by associating your bed with work, and programming in particular is not a great thing to be doing just before bed, as it gets your brain really worked up.

If your wife is sleeping that whole time, what are you really gaining? The laptop screen light is probably affecting her sleep, and you’re possibly creating issues for yourself. It sounds like multitasking where you end up with two things in a mediocre state instead of giving full focus to each.

Agreed, plus the screen glow is bad for your sleep cycle and eyes as well.

I don't think there's an easy solution. Either your side projects suffer, or your relationship. I choose to keep my relationship healthy, but at some point, if you keep postponing every project and hobby, frustration starts to mount and that's not good for relationships either.

I also really appreciate my time alone after my wife goes to bed, but we have a 3 month old baby now and I’m assuming once she’s a couple years older that’ll no longer be an option. I also have a hard time deciding between doing something fun for myself (like playing a video game) guilt-free or getting work done during that time.

As an aside, I’d think our sex life would be better if we went to bed together. As it stands right now it’s something we need to specifically decide to do, and I’m guessing with couples that go to bed together there’s more of an assumption there.

We're about to enter into the phase of our lives where we want children. This year will be the year we start, erm, trying.

I know I need to get balance into my life because a child will be very destabilizing to my current lifestyle. * sigh * It feels like I don't have enough time to buy my own freedom.

> we have a 3 month old baby now and I’m assuming once she’s a couple years older that’ll no longer be an option

Starting from right now, it's no longer an option for you, if your share of parenting responsibilities is a fair one and you don't just dump the caregiving of the baby unto your wife.

So kiss your spare time goodbye starting from right now. Until your daughter is old enough that she can play on her own for extended periods of time without constantly needing attention, and that's a long road ahead in the future.

Whenever this reality gets me down, a smile from my daughter and some playtime with her is enough to bring joy to my life. I love her. But my hobbies suffer and this frustrates me.

Actually it’s worked out really well so far - my wife would go to bed around 9 and I’d stay up until after midnight so I could handle her and do the first feeding of the night.

The past few weeks she’s largely been sleeping through the night though, so that system is no longer needed. I’m a photographer and this is my off season so I’ve been watching the baby during the day until her daycare starts in a few weeks. It’s on the way to my wife’s work so in the short term I don’t think our schedules need to change quite yet.

This perfectly describes my situation as well. I've been pondering this subject for some time now but I don't see a way out. In my case I could get that focus time if I simply got rid of almost all of my hobbies and interests. That way it would be feasible to dedicate 1 or 2 hours per day to the disciplined pursuit of just a single activity. But that's about it.

The other day I had what I consider an extremely disciplined day. I woke up at 7am, was at the bouldering gym at 8am, went straight to work from that at 10:00am and worked until maybe 6:00pm. Then I went home, immediately started to make food and took care of some tax stuff, planning for upcoming vacations, and so on.

At the end this leaves me with more or less no time for anything on that day. So essentially bouldering in the morning was my theme on that day and that's it. But of course I don't want to accept this and then I'm disappointed that I didn't dedicate any time to my 5 other hobbies.

> In my case I could get that focus time if I simply got rid of almost all of my hobbies and interests.

The problem is that the human mind doesn't work like this. You're interested in the stuff you're interested in, and your brain is probably wired to find interesting things.

If you simply say "I'll work during business hours, then spend time with my family, then sleep" you're probably going to be healthy... and disappointed. You cannot switch off your brain, some friend or acquaintance will show you something they did and suddenly it's on again -- you have a new hobby!

Note I don't give side-projects in the sense of "I could make a living out of this" a real consideration. That's what my regular work hours are for. I want to spend the rest of my time doing things I enjoy, not simply look for an angle to make more money.

Maybe consider working 32hours and project on friday?

I know what you mean - never enough time in the day. I'm also based in Spain and they are all night owls, which doesn't help...