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Comment by bipson | Hacker News Reader

Yeah, custom ROMs.

Most devices never get custom ROMs any longer than you would get regular updates anyway (since newer Android versions would not run on this chip).

Custom ROMs are a mess anyway:

- Untrusted sources

- Random annoying bugs (What, you need a camera?? Pff)

- Flaky "Android-Experience" (Yeah, you might be able to install Google Apps... after the 6th try)

- Device is "untrusted" - no Google Wallet or banking apps without yet another hack

- "Security Updates? You can get a full image every 2 weeks if you want that, but no idea what is included and what will break, sorry"

- Performance and stability of the device usually takes a big dive

Most importantly: You cannot build AOSP for a device, if there is no support from the firmware (Qualcomm), which is the main reason why there are no Android updates in the first place - at least that's the problem nowadays.

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> newer Android versions would not run on this chip

Why would all the Android Java stuff actually require a newer chip?

e.g. OnePlus 3 started with 7.x, was officially updated only to 9.x, but with LineageOS it runs 11.x currently.

> Untrusted sources

As if the vendors are super trustworthy…

> you might be able to install Google Apps... after the 6th try

Google services are "just one more zip to flash" and I've never heard of having to retry multiple times.

> no Google Wallet

Not too hard to carry the actual physical cards, or use a separate device (smartwatch).

> or banking apps

Complain to your bank / switch to a better bank.

> no idea what is included

LineageOS shoves the commit log right in your face, you can have a pretty good idea when it's really important to update.

> Performance and stability of the device usually takes a big dive

Really? Performance and stability are typically the reasons to switch to custom.

CyanogenMod/LineageOS have been, in my experience, the most performant and stable Android experiences by far, since the 4.x days at least.

GP seems to be complaining about random ROMs while ignoring the biggest one.

I used to ROM-hop a lot, but nowadays, I just stay on whatever the official LineageOS build is (for my OnePlus Nord, that’s still Android 10, but I tried stock and couldn’t handle it) and install my weekly updates.

IMO performance is usually better the more random the ROM (so xXx NoLimits > LineageOS > Vendor OS), stability can be very hit or miss with the random ones but is equal for LineageOS and vendor.

Despite Magisk Hide not getting developed anymore, at least on 10 I can pass safety check despite being rooted btw.

Holy wow, a person in the wild using SafetyNet apps on custom ROM?!

Any chance you can name and shame those apps for my further edification?

I currently have none, I just wanted to see if I would pass :D

But Google Pay requires it, so does my Health Insurance app (TK, which I don’t use), and the Banking App for DKB (fun fact, they enabled it in a normal update and left many people suddenly without access).

Pretty sure my banking apps - Monzo, Starling and Curve require SafetyNet. Also, I use Google Pay. And I'm running them on a custom ROM - Arrow OS.

I don't understand what the problem with that should be though.

I have LineageOS installed on an old BQ Aquaris X for more than a year now.

Most of the time it is unusable and slow. It randomly crawls, i.e. opening a browser, an input field, or the GMail App will make the device halt for about 10s. It will never get the new Android. Camera was always crappy with LineageOS. WiFi is broken since a few weeks and will constantly just vanish, needing to connect manually.

I almost only ran Cyanogen or Lineage on my devices, if not stock. I tinkered a lot with my Cyanogen installs back in the days, trying to even the bumps and failings.

Any device that has a decent stock image will run better with stock than any LineageOS or CustomROM in my experience.

I have never heard about that device. I’ve been using HTC Desire Z (T-Mobile G2 in the USA), some Nexus, and then OnePlus One, 5 and now Nord. All of them were faster with Cyanogen/LineageOS. Never had broken anything (cam, wifi, etc.) with official, stable builds. Camera works as well.

As I said, I’m currently still on Android 10, but I don’t really mind that.

> Not too hard to carry the actual physical cards, or use a separate device (smartwatch).

Yeah, because what I want is to buy a watch if I want to pay with my phone. Great solution!

> Complain to your bank / switch to a better bank.

Ah, yes, the "Switch-banks-because-your-phone-is-broken"-Trick, didn't think of that!

> LineageOS shoves the commit log right in your face, you can have a pretty good idea when it's really important to update.

Yeah, but the CVEs and firmware bugs are not and will never be in the commit logs. And even if they are, when I install an update on my phone OTA, I obviously will not pull up the commit log! How much time do you think I have?!

That's what the "Security Level"-indicator in the device settings/info is for.

> Really? Performance and stability are typically the reasons to switch to custom.

Yes, really. My LineageOS was always crappy slow on my BQ Aquaris, for every version. The camera is simply unusable. Every update brings another random bug. Since a few weeks it will lose WiFi, needing manual intervention, sometimes just 3 seconds after connecting.

If you want a working device, and not tinker with it all the time, or risk being stranded without certain functionality, you are safer with a device with a decent stock from a manufacturer that updates it diligently.

Google 'blueline' (the codename for Pixel 3) shows "partial" mainline kernel support, and work in progress for more - https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Google_Pixel_3(google-blu... So there is some hope that this might become at least a semi-usable device with reasonably trusted, non-flaky sources. Android app support can then be provided on top of the mainline kernel as a custom "container" via Anbox/Waydroid.

Custom ROMs are the Pareto principle in practice. Yes, you can relatively easily modify & build out 80% working functionality. As for the final 20%...

Huh? You get more features on custom ROMs, not less. Only very new ROMs or those newly switching to a new major Android version have missing features.

You've never run a ROM with a major bug or missing feature?

Only when using unstable ones or those with edgy names ;)

Custom ROMS are locked out of every Verizon device sold as well. Locked bootloaders have relegated a huge chunk of Pixel 3s to the landfill prematurely.

- I trust some custom roms more than vendors

- Bugs / perf / stability / qualcomm not providing firmware are device dependant, it's a good idea to check compatibility before buying the phone, same as when you're buying a laptop you're planning to use with linux.

- GApps can be installed easily but they're basically spyware, so maybe think twice about that.

- Magisk et similia fix banks app (no idea about Google Wallet, I don't use it)

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