I know my lack of extreme excitement can be off-putting | Hacker News Reader

I know my lack of extreme excitement can be off-putting

gabrielweinberg.com

103 pointsdomino47 comments

Amen. I'm exactly the same way. There should be a support group.

Worse than being merely off-putting, I think it actively hurts, personally and professionally, when your don't get as excited over every little thing as your peers. People take it as a sign of indifference, and judge you for not being a "team player" or other such nonsense.

I long ago learned that it's always best to keep your mouth shut rather than saying negative things in public (though it can certainly be a lot less fun). But the little trap that no one warns you about is that it's possible to be perceived as negative simply by being less enthusiastic than baseline. And it drives me nuts when people put me into positions where my only option is to feign enthusiasm, or to say something negative:

Rude Person: "isn't Yanni just the most brilliant musician ever? And how about that Kenny G -- jazz will never be the same, right?"

Me: "um. indeed."

This kind of stuff happens all the time, and it never gets any easier to navigate.

I'd bet that enthusiasm is significantly related to memory, too.

"What's the most exciting project you've worked on?"

"What's your most exciting vacation?"

If I haven't already considered the case for such interview/icebreaker questions, I just don't tend to remember things on that axis since most of them kind of clump together around the origin. So if I want to even try and give an answer they were looking for, I have to do a random search through a bunch of memories and guess at levels. Or default to the first thing I remember regardless.

My lack of excitement was interpreted as a lack of passion. And I was told startups look for passion. So sorry. I found it both annoying and silly. Silly, because the founder hadn't sounded any more excited than me and passion is such a vague term for him to look for.

The irony is i can and have gotten extremely excited (mostly when i am not recalling anything similar) in the past, but found that it is a disappointment almost always. So nowadays, i try to recall similar things and try to see the differences.

> My lack of excitement was interpreted as a lack of passion. And I was told startups look for passion. So sorry. I found it both annoying and silly.

I was just told the same thing at a big company. I'm sorry, but I thought I was hired to develop good software, not be on a cheerleading squad. My mistake.

I was once asked in a consulting interview why my responses to an optimization case study were so dispassionate and rational. I didn't get an offer but one of the interviewers later thanked me for not leaving straightaway.

Edit: He had used 'baritone and coldly logical', I think.

"i can and have gotten extremely excited (mostly when i am not recalling anything similar) in the past, but found that it is a disappointment almost always" same for me, but this "feelings" stops me from getting things done. I always try something new, and then lost the "excitement"...

I have the same problem when people ask for my favorite something-or-other. For some reason I just don't rank things that way, and I'm not quite sure why.

Yeah, really it's impossible. I think you would find those that can do this easily put a lot less thought into it and just come out with something. A lot of the time there isn't even a best or favourite rather a whole collection of unique experiences.

Yea, just come up with something that can be grouped to be among your favorites or something that simply makes for interesting conversation.

Aren't you hanging around with the wrong people/job if you are not getting excited? There has to be something that excites you.

Some people just don't wear their emotions/beliefs/etc. on their sleeve. I'm one. I have things I'm strongly but quietly passionate about, and don't feel the need to make a show of it. I know there's a famous quote about that somewhere, will post if I can find it.

There's also the problem that I express myself much better in writing than verbally. This is definitely a problem I'm working on, but many times when I start talking about something I'm passionate about I feel like I'm making a hash of the explanation and not doing it justice, or worse sounding like a bs'er.

Point being, don't take a perceived lack of enthusiasm for actual lack of enthusiasm (or more pertinent, lack of dedication). Even though Americans are taught to 'express yourself' wily-nily, there can be lots of reasons why some of us may not. Try to see past that, don't hold it against us.

Ok, but being less enthusiastic than baseline doesn't mean "I'm secretly holding back negative thoughts about almost everything". I'm less enthusiastic than baseline, but it's not because I look upon everything around me as distasteful or lacking. I know many genuine and enthusiastic people who don't need to exaggerate or dissemble.

However, you are probably less enthusiastic than baseline because you don't agree with the reasons that cause others to be more enthusiastic or because those reasons simply don't cause as much enthusiasm in you. Any explanation of your lower amount of enthusiasm will be construed as criticism.

> And how about that Kenny G -- jazz will never be the same, right?"

> Me: "um. indeed."

That's just extreme politeness, not a lack of excitement.

At a previous job, a co-owner would often ask me how I was. I'd say 'nnn' or something non-committal, because most days are just normal. After a year or so, he started saying, 'So pretty good, huh?' and laughing.

He got me. He knew that I -could- get excited, when there was cause to. But just because every day is normal and not horrible is no reason to act excited.

Sometimes enthusiasm can be infectious and can motivate people. Sometimes the leader will be the one person in the room who doesn't get excited. It's good to learn both how to have a wide emotional range AND to keep yourself under control.

Age helps with self control. I improved my emotional range by taking acting lessons in the Meisner technique.

My natural voice used to be flat and emotionless. It might have had something to do with my family life or with how I adapted to getting picked on in elementary school.

I've learned to put more range in my voice and I think it helps everywhere from work to flirting (I can't say dating since I'm a family man.) I used to be terrified of job interviews and now I'm not. It's opened up a whole new world for me.

Thanks for this. I've also consciously tried to improve my voice, especially in the context of story telling. I just got tired of people getting bored when I talked and I started looking at what I could do to improve the experience for others.

While its nice to know many others in this thread and the article experience the same personality traits, I think its important for us not to use that as an excuse not to communicate better with others!

I'll add that I'm always learning new dimensions of voice training. I recently became a radio amateur and found there's a whole art to speaking clearly on FM and SSB radio. A good net control operator or phone contester never has to say a call sign twice because his enunciation was bad.

You can be polite and say, "they're not really my thing, but it's awesome that you find such joy from their music, because that's what music is all about, right?"

I've never been impressed by any of the startups that are released in the last few years (YC or other wise). Including my own products. I find them run of the mill, meh kind.

The last product that I thought was cool, was Dropbox and that was a few years ago.

I was doing this judgment thing while I am trying to promote my own products. And I realize how hard it is, how difficult it is to find anyone to give a shit.

I now applaud anyone who gets a semblance of recognition or notoriety. Gimmicks or otherwise. I know how hard it is to pull those off. May be some are lucky and are born to attract the world towards them. But most are not.

There must have been an incredible amount of sacrifice, self doubt and disappointment that I do not know about.

I now celebrate every one's victories, no matter how small they are. I know how hard they are to come by.

Gabriel Weinberg is amazing at blogging! He revolutionised the anti-extreme excitement movement!

Seriously though, it is a good idea not to get swept up in the waves of hysterical enthusiasm that can follow some personalities and companies.

As the post states, apathy isn't the answer. I think a bit of healthy skepticism is all that's needed to be able to see past most PR/fanboy noise.

In my experience, the difference in default level of communicated excitement between UK and US teams can lead to friction because to the Americans it seems like the Brits are being surly at all times.

The differences in default humour settings are also really noticeable on transatlantic conference calls.

I'm the same way - I can't remember the last time I became so excited about something that I became visibly animated.

Like Gabriel says, that doesn't mean I'm not passionate, but others may interpret it as such, or think that I don't care at all about anything.

When something happens and I feel like there's a risk of someone misinterpreting my lack of visible reaction as something it isn't... I give a visible reaction.

That is, if something legitimately good and exciting happens, and I'm the only one in the room not celebrating, I'll force a smile/laugh/shout if there's someone present who doesn't know me well enough to understand my stoicism.

I don't feel like a fraud or phony for doing this; doing it is like accommodating a guest. If I raise my voice when talking to someone who has hearing loss, I'm not faker, even though I don't normally talk that way. If I use simple English to talk to someone who primarily speaks Spanish, I'm not being duplicitous.

It's not a disavowal of my personality or "wiring" to do this; it's a recognition that not everyone is so familiar with me to understand my particular emotional set point.

I also share this stoicism, and have a good friend who is the complete opposite.

I like that this thread both supports people like us, but also reminds that it has a real effect on communication with others. I like how you put it, it's like we need to learn to speak their language to keep communicating.

The burden is on us, because our natural state is to not communicate in the ways they are used to.

My friend has come to understand me and now knows how to read and question me to pull what he wants out, but I do think that many more people are like him than you or I.

What I hate is when someone gets uber-excited about x and I don't, they then get offended because they think I don't like it all that much or that I don't like them. Yet if I say something critical (constructive or not) about x, they also get offended, even if they have nothing to do with it. I guess there's no 'right' thing to say.

I know some people that have the excitement-meter ratcheted up to 11. I don't put any faith into what they have to say, because the hyperbole makes it so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have noticed a similar trend in the last few years of startups - the field's just so crowded, everybody's trying their hardest to get noticed, so what better way to attract attention than to bludgeon the word "awesome" into a bloody pulp?

I've often regarded this as one of the main cultural differences between Americans and Britons (with Gabriel being more like a Brit in this particular generali[z|s]ation).

And my conclusion is that this phenomenon cuts both ways. There are benefits and downsides to being highly enthusiastic or being reserved and I'm glad that there are different kinds of people on this planet. Kumbaya.

That's what the aikido principle, Living Calmness or Seishi, is, IMO. Just because i'm not expressing my enthusiasm, doesnt mean i don't think its cool, I'm just Calm.

http://www.aikiweb.com/spiritual/reed1.html

Somebody wrote that the English "His work is quite sound, actually" may be equivalent to or exceed the American "His work sets the standard we all aspire to." The fellow writing was a dean at Virginia Tech; I remember the name of the book as _To Rise Above Principle_.

This was a very fascinating read. As I was reading it, I kept thinking "I didn't write this, did I?" I've honestly ne er read or heard someone as accurately describe the way I feel about getting excited about stuff. My friends tell me I'm weird for not getting more excited - one swears I'm an android. Truth is though, I feel it's a strengh of character that we can control our excitement. It allows us to stay rational in situations that others find impossible.

i think the problem is people find it hard to adjust to other people's different excitement baselines. if you are less excitable or more excitable it shouldn't really matter because people should be able to adjust in the long term to take more notice or less notice. i'd be more suspicious of people who have high excitement baselines because it seems like it might be more beneficial to have high excitement than low excitement.

Something I have learned is that at least some varieties of "extreme excitement" are a sign of character flaws, an indication that someone's trying to sell something not worth buying. That said, a morose lack of any excitement is also a negative sign. Best to be in the middle, a bit subtle but with a keen eye for quality and an affectionate (but not infatuated) respect for excellence combined with a reasoned aversion to idiocy and disease.

Also, something one learns over time is that the startup/technology world also has its in-crowds and celebrity bullshit just like any other social ecosystem. Yes, we have people getting million-dollar checks who don't deserve them; it happens. The celebrity nonsense is generated by, and it benefits, people of low character who really don't belong in our world, people who care more about exclusive parties and velvet ropes than about buckling down and getting shit done and building something great. The good news is that in 15 years, each and every one of them will be a bitter, morose has-been. (I made the mistake of working for a late-'90s dot-com celebrity, someone who spent more money than most people make in 20 years on a fucking launch party before crashing and burning a year later. Details withheld since this is my real name.)

Well then I do have one advise. Do get excited. And next time it happens, scream a little. Laugh out loud. Hug the person next to you. "There is no growth in comfort".

Some of us just aren't wired that way.

It's not that I don't appreciate something, or find something funny, or scary, &c., it's that I don't demonstrate it as enthusiastically. I have the same range of enthusiasm, I think; the scale is just smaller. (It's probably a good bet that I actually don't get excited as easily as many, but that's harder to verify.)

It is a bit awkward to try feign enthusiasm just to fit in. Fortunately those who know me better can interpret the subtler changes in mood.

wouldn't that qualifies as hypocrisy? I know all the enthousiasm I see around startups and in tech marketing in general, the constant overuse of superlatives that have now completly lost their meaning feels like hypocrisy to me. I frankly don't care if you find something "awesome", and the more noisy you get about it the more annoyed and put off I am.

Agree - enthusiasm is not a one-dimensional thing.

Why was this downvoted? (Have just + voted). It might not be an opinion everyone shares, but that's not a downvote-worthy reason?

Because it makes it sound like Gabriel's behavior is wrong. I don't know him, but I don't think that he "needs more excitement" in his life. It's just that his bar is set higher.

If anything, I relate to the OP. When everything "is super exciting", nothing is. We already live in a world filled with over-stimulation and kids growing up to thing that "to have fun" is the only important thing. I wish we had move people that manage to keep their cool like Gabriel, instead of writing something that makes him look like a downer.

I recall reading several rants about the word awesome along the lines of No, being handed a snack is not awe-some.

I think that one is in part a linguistic shift, rather than a change in people's perceptions--- the word has just acquired a weakened meaning over the centuries, so people using it aren't intending to mean it in original, stronger and more literal sense.

There's an interesting chapter in the book Hyperbole in English (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521766354/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...), Ch. 6 on Conventionalisation, on how, with some words, what started as hyperbole has caused a meaning shift such that later users don't always perceive themselves to be using hyperbole, but just to be using the contemporary meaning of the word.

I'm in some kind of middle ground here. I generally fall into the same category as Gabriel (the blog author), but try to compensate by using words like awesome and cool to the extent that I have polite tourettes. I buy a coffee and when the barista hands it to me I reply "that's amazing, thank you"; someone tells me their mum's died and in the desperate struggle to think of an appropriately empathetic response mumble the words "that's cool, nice". Hmm, not sure where I'm going with this comment - started out as giving an amusing anecdote / fishing to see if others fall into the same boat, but just realised I may have started using HN as some kind of therapy site, so will stop now. Replies are still welcome though. Awesome.

Oh, sod off. Some people simply can't. I know, because I'm one. We're still excited -- we just don't show it.

Literally, we can't. You may as well be asking us to detach our arm.

You can't perform those physical actions? Were not talking about conjuring a feeling, were talking about emulation the actions that usually accompany them.

Isn't forcing yourself to emulate an expression pretty weird, though? It reminds me of the companies that demand everyone be "enthusiastic" and love their "fun workplace", rather than just allowing people to be quietly good at their job (http://www.kmjn.org/notes/funsultants_and_gamification.html).

That's correct.

Ever seen Mythbusters? Think Jamie.

That's like asking an introverted person to suddenly start orating in front of a crowd. People are just different. Worse, unless you're a good actor, people will see through the pretend and realize its fake.

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