Comment by inter_netuser | Hacker News Reader

Comment by inter_netuser | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

dosing usually would be dialed-in to provide roughly identical autonomic effects (at least) and then graded increased doses. otherwise it would be a pointless study.

here is a very old one, but oral not i.v.: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4900434/

5mg/10mg amphetamine sulphate vs 300mg and 600mg of caffeine (all oral). The study scales ended up being skewed because one subject had paradoxical response and felt relaxed instead on amphetamines, lol.

If you have access to the full text, check out page 89: fig5 and fig6.

Volkow's lecture may have referenced multiple studies, I've heard that in the context of her lecture on various findings on psychostimulants. amphetamines and cocaine have been fairly repeatedly shown fairly consistent substitutes, so it may have been a study on amp vs caffeine.

She just loves to study and talk about cocaine for some reason, has literally a hundred+ papers on it.

>The study scales ended up being skewed because one subject had paradoxical response and felt relaxed instead on amphetamines, lol.

That happens to me and I want to research what it means but your link doesnt seem to work

It means you could have ADD/ADHD.

It’s an old study, from 60s. No OCR. You can get the full text from other sources but it will be useless for your purposes, they don’t spend any time on that at all.

Being calm and relaxed on amphetamines can potentially mean there is some arousal disorder: sleep apnea, narcolepsy, delayed sleep syndrome, or just chronic sleep deficit. Maybe concussions (mild TBI), amphetamines work for that too.

ADHD is most likely because it’s so common, with sleep apnea being close second. I would rule out ADHD and sleep disorders first.

Potentially also, UARS, which is also form of sleep disordered breathing but not commonly detected with current technology (and also not easy to treat), some physicians do a full nasopharyngeal endoscopy under propofol anesthesia. I believe it’s incredibly undiagnosed and probably accounts for more than 10% of apnea cases, but most patients are thin instead of obese and so nobody suspects apnea-like disorder. If you needed braces or needed corrective jaw surgery UARS should be ruled out.

ADHD can be somewhat objectively measured with some tests like CPT, but that would also show abnormalities in sleep disorders.

If your measures of attention, and sleep study, along with wakefulness maintenance test, if warranted, are all normal, and your blood pressure is normal - maybe you are just a mutant.

See a good neuropsych that specializes in sleep disorders. Stanford is one of the better centres for that.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com