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This is why despite being a huge user of forums in decades past, I've essentially stopped posting anything on the internet. It's not just about the quality of discussion going down, it's just this... emptiness. In the real world, when you are talking to someone, you are exchanging ideas but also getting to know them as a person. That's a lot harder to find these days.

Then combine that with the relentless push to get everyone identifying themselves with a single identity tied to their real name... And the rampant abuse of people who do so... And it's just like... Why?

Making a real human connection requires some level of vulnerability. Someone can't get to know you if you completely hide who you are. But the level of doxxing, and harassing, and trading in personal data to spam you with ads for crap you aren't evenly slightly interested in, that's the price you pay now for being open. And in return, you get to have "discussions" with drive-by commenters who you'll never hear from again and may just be deliberately antagonizing you. Or they may just be bots trying to stir up rage.

Obscure communities solve some of these problems, but they are still open to drive-by trolls and privacy violators. There is simply no space on the public internet where you can find a real community and make real friends without a real risk of being abused by random people outside of that community, using your posts to target you for advertising or harassment.

And this doesn't even get into "likes" and this insane idea of being literally judged for everything you contribute to the community. This isn't how human community works at all. So I've all but opted out of using the internet for anything but consumption.

I wonder if (small?) Discords were/are an answer to this scale/anonymity.

>In the real world, when you are talking to someone, you are exchanging ideas but also getting to know them as a person.

I've seen very personal exchanges take place on Stack Overflow. A user new to everything, a veteran with some spare time - they exchange comments and learn about each other. In some cases they exchange contact information- I'm not privy to what happens after that

Mind you, almost ALL of SO is devoid of that connection - but it still happens.

Wow, I feel this same way and have never had it articulated so well. I have saved your quote for future use when trying to explain this to people. Thank you!

This resonates with me.

I think technology has vastly outpaced the biological capacity of humans to interact effectively.

We're built for small communities. Tribes, clans, villages, whatever you want to call it. We've technologically advanced to the point where we can interact with the majority of humans on the planet in near real time, but... most of those interactions are driven not by connection, but by just projecting our thoughts onto a symbol we create.

Limits have been proposed for how many of these stable relationships it's possible to maintain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

> Whether you are agreeing or disagreeing, but there's not a lot of actual conversation, just... reactions.

Could you elaborate on the distinction you’re making between genuine conversations and records of reaction?

Specifically, did you imply that tone and recognition of the other party are factors?

Thats hard, and I got some feedback that I know how to make a few changes around that. I plan to make the picking of a cafe the second option and ability to move content between them so it's not a panic if posting in the correct location.

Also the inputs to create a new conversation on your account from the main feed view at the top to be more inline with what users expect and not a button to open.

It's very different to talk to someone you have a rapport with from talking to a perfect stranger, and I definitely think the recognition matters. You get these weird interactions all the time on the Internet: If I ask someone a question about their reasoning, someone else may very well respond with what they think.

In a lot of Internet conversation it's like you are correcting people who you disagree with and then expounding what you think is true. That isn't really what conversation is like, I don't think.

In real life, I'm focused on the thing they said that I agree with, and replying to that. On the internet, I'm often replying to the part I disagree with. On the internet, I'll correct a factual mistake immediately. In real life, I try to ignore it if possible so as not to disturb the flow of conversation. In real life, if I'm talking to somebody at all, I'm probably at least open to friendship. On the internet, I usually don't care.

> You get these weird interactions all the time on the Internet: If I ask someone a question about their reasoning, someone else may very well respond with what they think.

Is the question about the other party’s reasoning as in thought process or reasoning as in the argument they’ve written down? I think of arguments as public processes/entities, in that it doesn’t matter who/where critique comes from. But human beings have particular social psychology so there may be ‘effects’ from drive by critique.

> In a lot of Internet conversation it's like you are correcting people who you disagree with and then expounding what you think is true.

Often when I read something I don’t agree with, my mind immediately creates a caricature of the author and I get the impulse to crush/fix them.

A little yes, the thing with stuff like Cafés that are the groups users can join, the person who creates it can also do moderation and setup a moderation team but everything must still follow the global rules.

This means a lot more users can moderate content besides just the main staff.

> Whether you are agreeing or disagreeing, but there's not a lot of actual conversation, just... reactions.

It sort of reminds me of when I was in kindergarten, and every child in the class wanted to put in their 2-cents, regardless of how relevant it was to the conversation.

On the forums that I prefer, people tend to stay on topic, and avoid asinine talk. Reddit is full of kindergartners.

I wonder if there is a community for scheduled group video/voice chat rooms about an interesting topic. You could show up to just listen, or participate. Is that how clubhouse is supposed to work? (I couldn't figure it out from their website copy)

Outside of small scale relationships you need vast stores of knowledge that your brain can capture. That's one of the reason the internet and social network exploded because we always seek out to learn something new and internet and social network made it accessible.

I honestly do wonder how well this exobrain concept works. It's great at convincing you that you have knowledge available, but is it the same as actually knowing it yourself?

One of the great benefits of knowledge is the ability to make connections between things you know. If I for example know the Latin words "manus" (hand) and "facere" (to make), and I know the English words "manual", "factory", and "manufacture", I'll probably make a bunch of connections there. I probably won't by merit of having access to a Latin dictionary alone.

If half the things you know are on the level of awareness of an unread Wikipedia article, I don't think you quite get the same benefit.

This is my thought as well. How do you then design for small communities for the web is the hard part.