Comment by ChuckNorris89 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ChuckNorris89 | Hacker News Reader

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>I just wonder how did he afford all this equipment.

Living in the US comes with certain advantages like some of the lowest consumer prices in the West including HW equipment being dirt cheap on the second hand market plus houses being big enough for space for such hobbies along with the biggest take home pays yielding some of the highest purchasing power in the West, a formula tough to replicate anywhere else.

At least compared to where I live now in Europe, such hobbies would definitely be unaffordable for me monetary and real-estate wise, which is also a monetary issue at the end of the day.

I was looking on an interesting blog about buying certain older ThinkPads or older multi-core server chips for $50 used for building a cheap home lab, and when I checked, super exited, on my local second hand market, such machines or chips were fetching north of €250 and that was before the chip shortage broke the market. That's just one anecdote, but you get the point.

I believe everything you're saying!

But also, please understand that what he's accomplished here is monetarily out of the reach of your average American as well. Especially the average American teenager. The article notes that his dad is a very successful engineer, so roughly speaking he's almost certainly in the top 5-10%. Most homes do not have garages of this size and most garages are not climate controlled as this one is.

Additionally, his dad is an engineer. I grew up middle class, but my dad sold vegetables. Neither of my parents could do algebra, much less advanced stuff, so they weren't in a position financially or otherwise to help me start up a semiconductor fab in the garage. Not that I would have had the smarts or the drive to do that; I'm merely pointing out that this kid is at the intersection of talent and privilege.

In service of their "boy genius" narrative, the article glosses over how much parental monetary support this kid has had. To pick one example:

    One of Zeloof’s best finds was a broken electron microscope 
    that cost $250,000 in the early ’90s; he bought it for $1,000 
    and repaired it.

Very impressive, but thousands more were spent on plumbing, repairs of the unit, a giant electrical transformer to power the thing, etc. Shipping costs alone may have exceeded the cost of the unit, but he doesn't touch on that. You can see some of the details in his video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXio_jpc_Y

I remember in the 90's, my school turned down a free electron microscope for exactly that reason -- the cost of the unit itself is only the tip of the iceberg.

He went to CMU - I haven’t met someone who comes from a modest middle class family who went to CMU. I’m sure they exist but I haven’t found them and I’ve met quite a few grads.

The guy comes from an affluent family. The privilege is obvious from a mile away.

Still cool and all but in no way should anyone read this as a “oh, why wasn’t I able to do that” or “why aren’t more kids doing this?!” type of thing. It speaks to how out of touch most of HN is that they find this relatable.

So would you say it is worth shelling out money to go to CMU? What do they teach that others don't?

It's about signal - nothing else. It's a class signal. "I'm from the same class as you are - hiring manager. Now hire me. I'm not one of those dirty poors."

Most prestigious universities offer deep discounts ("need-based financial aid") well into the upper middle class. At my parents’ income level, Harvard would have been free. UChicago was about half price, in the ballpark of my local state flagship. CMU expected us to pay the full $60k.

> The article notes that his dad is a very successful engineer...

The Wired article? Where does it say that? I only see reference to the skeptical engineer consulted by the father.

You're correct. I misread the article and thought the engineer was his father, not his father's friend.

So what? Why does it matter if his parents have money and are able to help him with knowledge? It is still amazing that the universe produced this kid who could do it.

Suppose it would be possible while poor, and only his high IQ enabled him to do it. Then it would still be his luck for having parents with genes that produced high IQ in their kids. So it would still be "privilege".

What's more, his parents don't just happen to be all that, they presumably worked for it too, including looking for a suitable partner to have kids with.

It might even inspire the one or other person to try to earn more money to enable their kids to do great things that require a bit of money.

Or what is the reasoning behind privilege theory? If you go back in the ancestry of this guy, eventually you'll find some colonialist exploiting slaves, and if you go back in the ancestry of poor kids who don't create chips in their garage, eventually you'll find an exploited human who never had a chance to earn money?

Not even mentioning that creating chips in one's garage is not the only kind of achievement there is. And some poor kids do in fact succeed in life.

Steve Wozniak also was lucky to have a da who was a cutting edge engineer. So I guess that makes Wozniak owe all his money to society now, because he had such an unfair advantage.

Wow, you took that in a different direction. Seemingly responding to all kinds of things I never said.

I think you are, at a minimum, really missing out on some context?

My post was a direct response to a parent poster who mused about how this sort of thing is possible in America, whereas it's nearly impossible for most Europeans. I responded by pointing out that this sort of thing also isn't possible for most Americans.

    Or what is the reasoning behind privilege theory?

Not sure what you mean. There's no "theory" in my post. I was not making some grand statement about society or the nature of privilege or whatever the heck else you imagined I was talking about. It would seem to me that you sure wanted to do that, though.

This kid seems super talented, and I'm glad that he seems to have parents with the inclination and means to support this sort of thing.

A 22-year old full time student can't even afford "dirt cheap" second hand equipment (nevermind the space to store it!) unless:

-They have some sort of windfall

-They have a trust fund or stipend that they receive just for existing

-Their parents pay for everything, or, alternatively, their parents pay for all of their living expenses so their own money is only "fun money."

-They, somehow, have a high paying job. In which case they probably won't be going to school full time also. Or they're "job" is having a lot of followers on social media.

This isn't a knock on anyone, I'm just trying to explain why one young adult student can be excited because they were finally able to save up for a soldering iron and another has a garage full of expensive experiment to tinker with.

It's pretty much implied this guy's living expenses (or most of them) are covered by his parents who also have tons of extra space and tolerance for him using it.

Well he’s (Sam) very likely still living at home, so parents are paying for most things. Plus he has the revenue from YouTube

I am not sure about his case, but it's not very hard for a talent student to get $1k scholarship every month. That's lot of money to use if he does not need to pay for his living expenses.

Yeah I mean so what. College room and board is 30-50k I’m sure he can get the microscope running for less than that

My PhD is funded by a research council and my stipend is £12k. After rent, food and bills there is some room.

But it's laughable to think I could repair and run an electron microscope. Already mentioned, finding a broken microscope for £1k wouldn't happen here. And you're seriously underestimating the resource requirements to operate such a machine

If my public middle school could do that in some back room closet it can’t be that bad.

For reference in us costs and spend your public stipend is less than my city spends per person on homeless folks and half of minimum wage. I think we’re taking different scales of money.

These kinds of projects are open to the top 5-10% of earners in the us so 15million or so folks could fund this but only 1-2 actually do it.

The whole point of my comments were the price scales are out of touch of most people.

Not to detract from the achivement. But there's some respect to how the challenges were overcome by the large budget

A 22 year old in the top 5% of earns is a very lucky man

So find some professor at a university with an electron microscope and convince them to let you borrow it some times.

I think those days are over. Universitys are super corporate now they want to own everything you touch

Ok then think of another cool project that doesn't require an electron microscope.

That kinda defeats the whole point at that stage?

I think living in the US must have some effect.

In the UK the second hand market is non-existent with the likes of the US. You can't just pick up hardware off Craiglist for next to nothing. It simply doesn't happen

Space is another thing as well. But I'm sure there's plenty of Americans whole live more urban without such space as well.

My future prospects may be promising, but owning a large garage to tinker in, whether electronics or something like woodworking seems like an untenable goal.

We definitely have it easier here in America with regards to available space and the price of used equipment, though I'd note that this kid's situation isn't typical.

I grew up middle-class (my dad made, statistically, pretty much the median household income) and out of the scores of kids I knew, perhaps one of them might've had the parental and financial resources to do something like this, had he had the skill/intelligence/inclination.

We had a tiny garage, barely enough to fit a small car. Of course, there was no room for a car, because we needed to keep the yard tools and such in there.

I'm laughing -- trying to imagine my dad's reaction, had I asked him if I could build a science lab in there instead. "Sorry dad, the lawn mower's got to go somewhere else now" lol. He would have told me to go fuck myself.

Why not eBay? Usally things are more expensive but for small stuff you pay market price

eBay in the UK is just a platform for people to sell their old hardware near retail price.

Some niches are decent value

Finding a £1k electron microscope would never happen

Edit:

A quick search across Europen eBay, I could buy a used/broken SEM for £5000 ($6850)

Then I'd need to rent somewhere to operate it

It’s market price +10% + shipping. Anything under you could buy up and resell for profit and I sometimes do

Space is a huge problem. I would have had the same issue as 25 year old.

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