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Comment by madaxe_again | Hacker News Reader

Study hard, get a good job, work hard, aspire to own things, buy things, work hard, get a promotion, aspire to more things, buy more things, work hard, buy things, die. It’s absolutely a mill and is absolutely possible to leave - but most will deny that it’s a mill, that they are on a unique and special journey. Sure, this ant wears a party hat, that ant has clogs on, but they’re still all walking in a circle.

Most existences are functionally indistinguishable. Not all, by any means, but most.

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Where do you get your food? What are you reading HN on? You’re making “working hard for a promotion” seem like a futile endeavor, and yet you likely sustain yourself and entertain yourself with the fruits of those working the jobs you deride.

This article is about an ant mill, which occurs when a group of ant’s start following a circular track of pheromones The ants think they’re heading towards the colony, but they’re not. What you describe as a “mill” is really just society, i.e. the ant colony. To me, it seems like you’re on the mill, following an idea that ultimately leads nowhere.

There is no derision there. Consider that it wasn’t a personal attack and reread it.

The same could be said to you about my comment :)

You said "deride" though

Deride can mean to call something worthless. A mill, by definition, is worthless.

I produce about half of my own food, and hope to get that to 100% within the next five years - but for that I have to wait for trees to grow.

I deride nobody - I feel great empathy for those walking the well trodden industrial path, as I too was born into it, and I too saw it as The Path. I understand your anger at my position - it is quite an affront to have someone say that your existence may as well have been manufactured on a production line.

What you see as society is, in my view (and of many, many philosophers - see Baudrillard, Sartre, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, for starters) a gigantic mill, spiralling in on itself, self referential and crippled through the reification of concepts introduced in 18th century Britain.

We are so deeply inured to the ideas that industrialisation bought that we are mostly blind to the idea that there are other paths to tread, other goals to seek. Our entire value system has been harnessed by a mindless machine of capital, with no human or humanity at the helm - it is a pattern, self sustaining through humans’ tendency to do as others do, and fear of social ostracism.

This indolent peasant decided to go back to the land, rather than to continue to toil in a dark, satanic mill. I am ostracised for it, and that’s quite alright.

This mill is the only thing that keeps this many humans alive though. To have humanity abandon it is to subject 90% of the population to starvation. A steep price to pay to become people living off the land without industrialization.

The only reason you are able to wait for trees to grow in peace is also because you live in the protection of modern society. You are only allowed to “go back to the land” because of the massive industrial military protecting you.

Are you really being "ostracized" for it? Lots of people I know semi retire on hobby farms. And you simply can't produce food as efficiently or cheaply as modern farming techniques, so you're in the privileged position (probably as the result of studying and working and earning) that you can afford to spend a large amount of time and money growing your on food.

This is a nice and fulfilling/entertaining lifestyle choice, that's great for you and you that you are in this position now. Maybe that advice you got about getting ahead wasn't so bad then?

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