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Comment by imiric | Hacker News Reader

From reports I've read the Framework laptop has poor build quality. This comment from here actually: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29807585

I'd like to support their cause, but like you, I have way too many machines that already work well enough, that I can't justify another purchase unless it would offer a substantial improvement over my current setup (old ThinkPads). Plus I really can't function without a Trackpoint ;)

So I'm holding out a generation or two to reconsider. I hope they improve.

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> From reports I've read the Framework laptop has poor build quality.

I'm gonna be really honest here and say that people have a very distorted subjective idea of what a 'sturdy laptop' is like. A lot of marketing money has been spent to make people think the only way to have a strong object is for it to be made of a rigid metal or glass material, so people go "oh my god the lid can FLEX this thing will break if I drop it!" but that's not at all how things work.

The truth is you can't really just guess at whether a thing will survive falling or whatever by looking at or touching it. The only thing that tells you anything really is actual experience and/or testing.

(personally, I think my framework laptop feels plenty sturdy for all the subjective anecdata that's worth, it's just not designed in a way that's trying to scream at you "you can run it over with a truck and it will work perfectly")

Sometimes I think that I must be the only one who doesn't throw his laptop into a backpack full of hammers while jogging everywhere.

> From reports I've read the Framework laptop has poor build quality.

Sources please. That's news to me.

Yeah, the cited source doesn't rea mentioned build quality. It's mostly software bugs, muffled speakers and fan noise.

None of that is build quality.

From the cited source:

> Build quality is clearly a step down from my old Thinkpad X1 Yoga. The hinge doesn't feel as strong, some keys are mushy/creaking and I'm skeptical my Framework will survive as many falls as my old laptop.

That is not the same as saying the build quality is poor though: it's clearly a comparative statement. "The Tesla Model S is cheaper than the Model X" does not imply "The Model S is cheap".

Replacing "Model S" in the sentence with a beat-up '97 Honda civic and it may be true, but there is not enough evidence contained in the sentence to support an absolute statement.

If a "hinge doesn't feel strong" and the keys are "mushy and creaky" that 100% indicates poor build quality.

Perhaps our individual thresholds for quality differ, but either one of those two statements are dealbreakers for me.

Our individual thresholds for quality differ, that's for sure, because my definition is "Was the object built well, considering it's constraints?" As an example,if something is made of plastic (or "polycarbonate"[1]), I expect it to flex to a degree, and it can still be very well made (e.g. old school Nokia phones had incredible build quality and industrial design)

1. I hate that plastic had to be re-branded in this manner because a small-but-vocal contingent decided it "feels cheap" on phones, or somehow lowers build-quality. This resulted in glass-backed phones which ironically had to be kept in plastic cases to take advantage of plastic's superior elasticity.

That is a very good point - I never thought of it that way. Old Nokia phones are indeed built incredibly well.

Perhaps and "build quality" and "premium feeling" need to be separated. I suspect I'm not the only one conflating the ideas.

The correct quote regarding the hinge is, "the hinge doesn't feel as strong". "as strong" doesn't mean it isn't strong. It means the original commenter doesn't think it is as strong as another hinge not that it isn't strong. Since there is no data regarding actual hinge performance this is a subjective and not an objective evaluation. Keyboard feel is also very subjective, so one person saying the keyboard is "mushy and creaky" holds no real value either.

I would categorize the laptop not turning on for 2 weeks, poor speakers, fan noise, mushy/creaking keys, and weak hinge all to be part of build quality. And yes, software issues are also a problem.

We can argue about how subjective all of those points are, and if a single report has any merit on its own, but it was enough to disuade me from making the purchase.

If I could test the laptop locally before buying it, I would do that. Otherwise I don't want to risk it on a first gen product, since I _can_ wait for gen 2 and 3.

I've had my laptop for a while now and haven't noticed any build quality issues. It definitely feels nice and light but it seems sturdy enough. I'm not in the habit of dropping my laptop on the ground but I do chuck it on to the bed from time and to time and it doesn't seem any worse for wear.

I came across similar anecdotes of build quality and turned my nose. I found myself wishing I could hold a Framework laptop twist it like I was ringing out a wet rag. Surely this is a good test of build quality, I thought to myself. But in a moment of clarity, I realized this and other pseudo signals of build quality that Youtube reviewers and other armchair experts were attempting to use to draw comparison (to a unibody macbook pro) were either irrelevant or pedantic. Why is a unibody the pinnacle of build quality? Shouldn't longevity be?

I checked my Apple elitism at the door and I put my name down for a Framework in September and got it in October. Happy ever since. It's a great little laptop and would highly recommend others.

Are you talking about personal testimonials, or published data?

If it's published data, mind sharing a link?

It was a recent thread here on HN. Let me see if I can find it...

This comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29807585

Some of these issues could be subjective, and I shouldn't decide based on that single report alone, but it was enough reason to reconsider the purchase, especially since, like I said, I really don't need a new machine.

I would say all that is subjective regarding what they specified as "build quality". I'll add my own take to it - I got mine early last month and haven't noticed any of those. That said, I do think the battery is the weak spot, but I think part of that is on the OS side (I'm running Pop!OS).

Thank you for sharing!

Had mine since July, batch 1. No build quality issues at all from my perspective...one of my favorite keyboards to type on. Battery is not so good, though.

That’s not my personal experience at all. Yes, my $4000 14” MaxBook Pro has objectively better build quality, but I think the Framework is at least on-par with the $2000 XPS 13 I bought first (and later returned for the Framework).

Can’t comment on the trackpoint, which is something I’ve never personally liked, but if that’s a deal breaker, you’ll probably have to have a Thinkpad. But I’ve been very pleased with the build quality of my Framework.

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