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Comment by kstrauser | Hacker News Reader

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way.

And still, growing up with “Just Say No”, I can’t quite bring myself to. In the back of my mind, a little voice asks if that’s the example I want to set for my kids, which is silly when they’ve seen me (responsibly) using alcohol for years. I just can’t imagine using a vape or popping an edible in the same way I might pour a little glass of whisky before settling down for the evening.

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Well, media has been recently overwhelmed by studies showcasing the benefits of weed so that the disadvantages of using it appear to be lower or none at all, but that's not really the case.

If smoked, you're smoking tar and volatile compounds that can harm the lungs, much like a regular cigarette - although you're probably not going to smoke a pack of 20 joints in a single day like the moderate-to-heavy smoker next door do.

There's also an association between weed and schizophrenia (and depression) in adults. I'm not going to say "weed causes schizophrenia" (or depression), but the correlation exists and some will argue it implies causation here. Weed is also associated with some memory problems in adults too, although they seem to wean off if you stop using it.

There are cardiovascular risks associated with THC too, since it can cause abnormal heart rhythms and elevated heart rate. And, again, it's even worse if smoked since carbon dioxide and smoke compounds are known for affecting the heart.

So, yeah, weed has benefits, plenty of them, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily "safer". Don't get me wrong, alcohol is toxic, it's broken down in the liver into Acetaldehyde, a known carcinogenic. This stuff can't be healthy. But, for weed, we have less data on how it impacts the body - see how much time did it take to scientists finally admit alcohol is toxic? -. Similar studies on cannabis are still ongoing and we don't know yet all the risks it poses, but we already can see they do exist.

Maybe the real healthy thing is not switching from one drug to another, but cutting back on the overall consumption.

See, I'm of the opinion that problem drinking and/or weed is escapism or a form of self-harm, and unless the underlying issues are solved you'd just find an alternative.

Anecdotal, but I drink less now that I'm in a comitted relationship / living together. I still drink, but it's social. I've only been sort of hung over once in the past year.

Going to the movies is a form of escapism too. I wouldn’t connect escapism to self harm. It can help you avoid getting help, but that’s only harm by opportunity cost, which opens up all sorts of issues.

what's wrong with temporarily escaping sobriety?

Anecdotally, my partner and I enjoy sharing various intoxicants within a committed relationship.

I do not see an underlying issue to be solved.

Those are all good points. I still think evidence shows that weed is likely the less harmful option of the two. In the spirit of harm reduction, if I had to choose one of them to start with, weed appears to be the rational choice. But there’s no one telling me I have to use either of them.

Coffee is still my favorite drug, and I’ll fight for that one.

But humans aren't rational, we decide based on emotions most of the time. Alcohol and coffee have rituals you've been familiar with since childhood. Society says it's ok so you feel ok about it.

Also maybe you prefer one of the highs over the other? I don't drink alcohol before doing sports or going to work, but I might have a coffee.

Granted weed is a depressant like alcohol. But maybe the high is not as enjoyable for you. Maybe you don't find the relaxation after work that you expect from the scotch.

The schizophrenia and memory loss part seems to be for very heavy usage.

AFAIK infrequent use of edibles has no down sides.

nope there are still the cardiovascular risks

I think that the relationship between marijuana smoking and lung damange isn't so cut and dry bad as smoking nicotine is. Here's a blurb:

> Regular smoking of marijuana by itself causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways that is consistently associated with an increased likelihood of symptoms of chronic bronchitis that subside after cessation of use. On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance. Therefore, no clear link to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease has been established. Although marijuana smoke contains a number of carcinogens and cocarcinogens, findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23802821/

I once fell into the trap of thinking that, this sticky green leaf was just a fun harmless substance.

It's a silent killer,compared to alcohol it's so easily abusable because you can never have too much.

What was half a roll after a long day of work became 2 or 3 rolls a day.

It makes you okay with being mediocre, and comes with a lot of sneaky short and long term mental side effects that are yet to be studied.

Lately I would rather have a scotch and 24 hour later have it out of my system, than live with a thin daily mental fog.

Yeah I stay clear of it these days

> Lately I would rather have a scotch and 24 hour later have it out of my system, than live with a thin daily mental fog.

This was absolutely my experience and resulting opinion as well. Ultimately weed is not as harsh in the short term for me, but the cumulative effects over even a week of usage start to become apparent in my cognitive ability. It's a little insidious the way it creeps up on me. For that reason I don't partake nearly as often and have fallen back to enjoying alcohol in moderation myself.

Setting aside tradition/ritual, which I don't think should count for nothing, I can think of many objective metrics on which alcohol is superior:

- Flavor

- Fills the stomach (can be a disadvantage too, but is advantageous in some situations, e.g. while waiting for dinner to be served at a party)

- Doesn't consume itself (i.e you can set down a drink and come back to it 30 minutes later)

- Easy to consume a small amount without substantially altering your mental state.

- No fire/burn risk

- Doesn't generate smoke/odor, which is unpleasant for other people and gets in your clothes/furniture

How can flavor possibly considered an objective metric?

In the sense that alcohol beverages sit on your tongue and most have a designed flavor, of which there are many varieties to enjoy. But I suppose you're right, marijuana smoke does have a flavor, and you may prefer that to any alcoholic beverage.

But granting that it's not objective, it still something one could point to (and I would) as a reason for preferring alcoholic drinks.

Most people looking for flavor aren't smoking. Vape products these days are designed with specific flavor profiles. I'm not talking about the strange mango/bubblegum/etc flavors, I'm saying most weed itself has designed flavor for extracts these days. In the same way that orange juice is a design flavor (manufacturers will work with the brand to combine sugar/juice/oils/scents/pulp ratios), most dab vape concentrates are reduced to their bare components then recombined to achieve a flavor profile desired. Want it more skunky? More piney? Sharper? Softer? It's all achievable and designed.

The industry has changed drastically in the last decade. Consider smoked weed to be analogous to moonshine when comparing it with alcohol. That's not a dis towards flower, but many products are just as heavily designed as a bottled beer or scotch is these days.

There are lots of ways to consume weed that don’t have those drawbacks. There’s a dispensary around the block from me, and even though I don’t use it, I went in to look around to see what our new neighborhood shop looked like. They had a wide selection of edible candies, vape pens, and even drinks. It looks like it’d be very easy to get a consistent dose without burning anything. I know how much alcohol I can drink to get a pleasant effect without getting drunk, and I’m supposing I could do the same for weed if I wanted. (Or maybe not: it looks like the effects greatly vary based on strain, or how much CBD you take with it, etc. The “how much should I take to relax?” formula looks quite a bit more complicated.)

Fair point, I was thinking of just smoking, and not other forms of consumption.

I get it. When I think of weed, my first mental image is still of someone passing a joint or bong around. I was surprised at how many measured dose options there were, though. Want a bag of watermelon gummy candies with X mg of THC? They’ve got you covered.

I do wonder how much variance there is in those. Is that 5.0 mg += .1mg, or “eh, about 5 on average”. It’s easy to dose alcohol as you know how much alcohol is in an ounce of whisky. If you find one that’s stronger than another, your taste buds will let you know quickly.

Worth noting, for many people there is a significant difference in experience with edibles vs smoked/vaped weed.

My recommendation is to not overthink it. If you're curious at all, go spend $7 on a single pre-roll, light it up, and try it out. There's plenty of unpleasant-ness in it for a first timer, but if you like being high, then you'll probably want to do it again.

Dosing for smoking is pretty easy; take a few puffs and wait ten minutes. If you don't feel what you want, take a few more puffs. You don't need to understand your mg dose unless you become pretty habitual

This dosing suggestion is probably good for a lot of people, but for some, that initial "take a few puffs" could be way too much.

Alcohol is pretty versatile. Not every use of it is for intoxication. For example, nobody is getting a buzz from deglazing a sauce pan with red wine.

erm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

I prefer edibles. Maybe it's because I don't really want the full experience, at least right now (perhaps I'll benefit from a higher level later on for medical reasons). I learned I like CBD and am glad to be in a state where I can have THC as well, at any ratio to CBD. It isn't a consistent dose, but it's easy to dial in what the top dose I might have is, and I like the randomness below the top dose.

>- Flavor

This is obviously not an objective metric of superiority.

>- Fills the stomach (can be a disadvantage too, but is advantageous in some situations, e.g. while waiting for dinner to be served at a party)

Also subjective, as you realize its inconveniences and give one positive use case. In my experience this bloat is largely uncomfortable and inconvenient.

>- Doesn't consume itself (i.e you can set down a drink and come back to it 30 minutes later)

This is only true if you leave something lit that is burning, something I doubt most would do on purpose

>- Easy to consume a small amount without substantially altering your mental state.

Sister comment addresses this well

>- No fire/burn risk

Valid concern, but there are many common ways to consume weed that don't carry that risk

>- Doesn't generate smoke/odor, which is unpleasant for other people and gets in your clothes/furniture

Same as above

Ironically I think the traditions and rituals around alcohol is the best thing it has going for it, on most "objective" measures weed is regarded superior.

> Flavor

I vape flower cannabis, flavor is a key component of this process.

> Fills the stomach

Cannabis stimulates my appetite. This is welcome and paired with a glass of wine (on an empty stomach) before dinner makes the experience amazing!

> Doesn't consume itself

My vape shuts off with inactivity - it doesn't "consume itself. Neither would a "bowl" of cannabis. Even a "joint" would stop burning if you put it down.

> Easy to consume a small amount without substantially altering your mental state.

This is one of the major advantages of consuming cannabis via the vaping/smoking vs. edibles (also alcohol). The effects are felt in seconds which allows you to eaasily regulate dosage. Edibles and alcohol can easily be overconsumed because of the delay involved in stomach/liver process.

> No fire/burn risk

My vape is electric, the risk of fire would be similar to using any of my other electronic devices with heat, such as a wax melt device etc.

> Doesn't generate smoke/odor, which is unpleasant for other people and gets in your clothes/furniture

While the vape does create an odor, it's short lived and doesn't smell like smoked cannabis.

Just get a vape pen. It’s even more convenient than a beer. Fits in your pocket. You can take a tiny puff and put it back if you wish. Barely any smell

Each of of these can be solved with a either edibles, vaping (or a number of non-fire options), or a pipe with small bowl.

Personal anecdote but I disagree. I started smoking pot regularly after college and moving to a state where it was legal. It mostly displaced alcohol in my social circle. I thought it was harmless and 'superior' to drinking. I cannot have pot around anymore and was somewhat difficult to finally quit. While the consequences of pot addiction and difficulty in quitting are much lower than that of alcohol; the barrier to forming an addiction is also much lower. Pot undermined my life, mental health, social life, and motivation while using it. It's just too easy to get high, and too easy to tell yourself 'it's only pot, and it's not harmful.' Now I'll drink a couple beers after work some days, or some days I wont. But I don't think about how I want to go home and drink while I'm at work and it doesn't leave me in a groggy anti-social haze for 24 hours after using it. For me, alcohol is a much healthier drug.

I appreciate that. And again, I have little experience with pot so I can’t counter that with a personal story. I’m a little surprised, though, as it’s so easy to stumble across alcohol with it being sold in every store and restaurant. I’d have to go out of my way to acquire pot, but I could pick up a 6-pack of beer on my way to the cheese section of the grocery store.

I wonder what the relative numbers are of people who occasionally use pot vs weed and become addicted to it.

Exactly, with alcohol I know play that's my 2 drinks of the night on weekends, call it a day.

Weed : the effects can last for days, paranoia, delusion, short term memory loss, not wanting to socialize, depression.

Sample size of one, I know! Your mileage may vary .

"it’s not a source of empty calories"

Until you get the munchies...

Hah, fair point. The Jack in the Box around the corner advertises:

- Late night “munchie meals” (https://jackinthebox.fandom.com/wiki/Jack%27s_Munchie_Meal)

- Delivery until 3 AM.

That can’t be a healthy combination.

I avoid the munchies mostly by drinking a crap load of water, which I need to do anyway to keep my sensitive throat from getting sore.

Microwave popcorn is also only about 400 calories a bag!

For me as a daily weed user, this "type" of munchies only persisted for so long. Curious to hear of others experiences, but after about a year of developing the habit, I became almost repulsed by very salty/greasy/sweet foods and started to crave simpler meals comprised of more fruits and vegetables.

Healthy food tastes better too. Honestly I’ve grown sick of simple snack foods by now. I’d much rather eat a nice meal

I wish more folks realized this. I tend to eat healthier if I smoke regularly because of this.

tbf the munchy satisfying foods aren't necessarily empty calories. Alcohol is the worst of all macros and devoid of nutrition.

You're already giving a bad example to your kids by drinking alcohol.

That's fine. They'll grow up and decide what to do. If they'll drink themselves senseless there must be a bigger problem than seeing you drink alcohol in small quantities.

I certainly am not doing all the mistakes I saw my father's doing and I hope my kids will grow up to be responsible adults which will make their own decisions.

I never lived in a place where weed was legal but for a couple of years I used it as an antidepressant and as a way to unwind. I bought a vaporiser (the healthiest, quickest and hassle-free way to absorb weed - very little smell lingering and you're not smoking paper) and vaped nearly every evening (after kids bedtime) and it was great to survive a hard period of my life. After 2 years I didn't feel the need anymore and I stopped. I can't be bothered to go to onion to buy weed anymore and just drink a beer every once and then when I want to unwind - but if weed was easy to buy I'd definitely buy it and treat it like I treat beers. I'm glad I didn't use alcohol in the same way, merely for the extra calories and for the liver damage.

Still, there is a good reason you're fine drinking a beer in front of your kids but you should avoid vaping in front of your kids - and that's merely to avoid exposing them to passive vapour.

I’m torn on the setting an example bit. My parents never drank at all, that I know of. Growing up I was led to believe that you drank either never or always, like there was no middle ground. I wish someone had told me or demonstrated that it’s OK and normal to have the occasional drink and then stop.

We’re fortunate to live in a house with a yard. If I were going to smoke or vape, it’d be on the back deck. I wouldn’t use it inside any more than I’d use tobacco smoke or vape in my living room. More likely, I’d use an edible.

The downside to doing it secretly is that I’m pretty sure my kids in high school know what a stoned person looks like. The last thing I’d want is to have them notice I was under the influence, then come to their own (and wrong) conclusions like “huh, does Dad do this every night? Has he always?”

My parents drink wine at every meal… there is never water at their table! And yet I have never seen them drink any alcohol without food… my perception when I was young was that wine was just another beverage. As an adult now I pretty much follow their example… I don’t drink if I am not dining… but unlike them I do it onto certain or twice a week.

Imagine being haunted by Nancy Reagan in 2022.

"You had to be there, man."

It wasn't just her, but that the US went all-out stigmatizing weed. According to the DARE program, after 2 marijuanas you might as well be shooting up heroin. (Note: this spectacularly backfired, as plenty of kids tried weed and didn't die, figured the whole thing was a lie, and then tried harder drugs that are much less forgiving.)

I don't think a thing about other people using weed. I'm sure plenty of my friends and coworkers in the Bay Area do, and they're all awesome and productive people. It still feels weird for me, though, after a lifetime of being told it was bad.

It's not just Nancy Reagan, man... Every former president and first lady since JFK, they're all out to get us. They got that Annunaki blood, long flouride fangs, and woobly mind control waves.

Sounds like you already realize the error of your reasoning.

Don't be so set in your ways. As we get older, it's harder and harder to convince ourselves to try new things. You should actively fight that to keep life fresh and full of excitement. Don't let the words that were burned into you as a kid influence your rational adult decisions.

Specific subject aside, I totally agree with you. Life’s too short and the world is too amazing to get stuck in a rut, and I’m ready to give it all a try. You’ve got a vacation planned to live with shepherds in the Alps for a couple of weeks? Save me a space in your yurt. Let’s do this.

But truthfully, the third alternative in alcohol vs weed is “none of the above”. I’m not obligated to choose a vice, and if I had to give up alcohol today, say for health reasons, it’d be a small bummer but I don’t know that I’d rush to replace it.

Weed isn't legal where I live however its easy enough to access. A thing i really dislike about weed is in my (and most of my friends) experience its possible to just accidentally get to high and have a panic attack or freak out.

While this is possible with drinking, I find its much more difficult especially when drinking beer as I do. It has to be a much more conscious decision for me to get wasted drunk than for me to accidentally get so stoned I hide in my room.

Weed these days is so strong, smoking a full sized joint is much like drinking a glass of vodka. If you do it more often you learn your limits and dosage to get that two beers vibe consistently

A good alternative with similar results is Delta 8. Lower potency and less likely to cause any freak out moments.

> I just can’t imagine using a vape or popping an edible in the same way I might pour a little glass of whisky before settling down for the evening.

Every drug has its uses, I guess. Different effects for different situations. I can't imagine a social setting smoking weed to, it has to be alcohol for me.

Best example is to do neither and find something that actually is interesting or sort of fun to do at night.

i'd recommend trying weed before putting too much more thought into this.

they're really not interchangeable as recreational intoxicants. i find marijuana a very different experience to alcohol, and personally i much prefer the alcohol. i had had the same thought as you, that maybe marijuana would be better for me, but ultimately i don't think it matters if it's better if i don't like it.

also, beer and whiskey are delicious and it's more about the enjoyment of consuming them for me than the effects of the alcohol. weed isn't very enjoyable - smoking is terrible, and edibles are just worse version of sugary treats.

My parents were responsible cigarette smokers. They were not chain smokers or even pack-a-day smokers. My father quit cold turkey when the surgeon general warning came out for tobacco.

I wonder how accurate or fair a comparison my statement makes?

I seem to recall studies around weed and schizophrenia being correlated so not convinced it wins by all metrics. Probably just most

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