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Comment by pkulak | Hacker News Reader

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

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Smoking is for sure worse than alcohol consumption: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-by-risk-...

Global yearly deaths by smoking: 7.1 million

Global yearly deaths by alcohol usage: 2.84 million

This doesn't include all of the other harmful effects from alcohol, like violence and injures. How much marital physical abuse happens due to alcohol? I'd rather have someone harm themselves from smoking then someone beat their wife while drunk.

Not to defend violent alcoholics, but people who get violent when drunk already have a problem, and would also violent when sober (they probably are). Most people who drink are not violent.

Regarding injuries: Sure, but the statistics in general doesn't include stuff that doesn't kill you but still is bad, like non-lethal lung problems from smoking.

To be clear, this data is showing correlation, not any kind of causation.

Regardless, if we accept the argument that people need to be coerced for their own good into avoiding harmful behaviors, the data linked seems to argue that we should be restricting access to sugar and high glycemic index foods (flour) much more than alcohol since "High blood sugar" at 6.5MM and "Obesity" at 4.7MM both beat alcohol by a large margin.

Yes, I agree that we should do more about unhealthy foods. Not restrict access to them (after all, smoking is also not illegal), but set in places incentives that nudge people towards healthier foods (these can be financial, educational, psychological, etc.).

The difference is that the average smoker dies at 80, and the average alcoholic dies at 35.

Source? 35 feels realllly young, but I guess it depends on what’s considered an “average” alcoholic. If someone is spending their entire day drinking string liquors everyday, I can maybe see that.

I was being approximate, but here is the more nuanced explanation:

"This study found an average of 93,296 alcohol-attributable deaths (255 deaths per day) and 2.7 million YPLL (29 years of life lost per death, on average) in the United States each year."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930a1.htm

Whereas smoking reduces life expectancy by "only" ~12 years.

80 sounds old for smoking to.

While I don't disagree with smoking being extremely harmful, most people addicted to nicotine can still function regularly. Regardless of which kills more, they both kill via proxy and that's where I see the biggest issue for both of them. Interestingly enough I've found that many people smoke when they're drinking.

The comment never claimed that alcohol is worse than synthetic opioids or cigarettes. The comment stated it is one of the worst drugs.

"one of the" is weasel words.

I don't know, the ways in which they stack up is like apples and oranges. Cigarettes are certainly bad for you, and it's known they cause cancer but cigarettes don't have the same severity when it comes to withdrawl in my understanding. Alcohol withdrawl can cause hallucinations, seizures, even death. Also, I would say the danger is greater with alcohol because it impairs your judgement in a far greater way than cigarettes... have you ever been scared of someone who is driving while smoking?

Extrapolated out over time, I would guess that alcoholism is a cofactor in more deaths annually than cigarettes (edit: that is to say, deaths not caused directly by drinking, including drink driving, but conditions such as diabetes and heart disease which are greatly exacerbated by drinking for example... I wonder if someone who dies of cirrhosis gets chalked up as a death by alcohol?)

The paper referenced in sibling comments purports that alcohol is worse than tobacco.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201112012236/http://dobrochan....

I wouldn't be surprised. There are studies that are beginning to link liver health to neurodegeneration, and that's just one set of potential disease states.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210914152531.h...

Parent is most likely basing their comment on the work of David Nutt, see my other comment on this thread.

the parent said "one of the worst" not the worst.

also, at least for now, cigarettes are legal, which just bolsters the point above.

The two are actually on par with each other

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