Ask HN: How should I find a wife? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How should I find a wife?

23 pointsomosubi42 comments

Hello HN, for those who are already married, I'm curious how you would go about finding a wife if you had to do it again - I'm an American man in my late 20s/early 30s in a large city but any advice or suggestions you have I'd be interested in regardless of context.

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All of the women I dated I met in lower pressure situations like at work or school and the relationship just developed naturally. I never tried to force it. I met my wife at work while in college (so it wasn't a professional level job). Trying to meet women at a bar or club seems too high pressure and too much like a game so I never understood guys who did that. I'm a huge nerd and would never be able to make bars and clubs work anyway.

To add to this, put yourself in more of these lower pressure situations. Find social clubs (sports clubs where the members meet up socially as well is my preference) that you _enjoy_ on their own. If you meet someone that's great, but if you have fun you still have gained even if you don't meet someone. Do this enough and just stay open.

This. Just this. I met my wife on a 2 week group vacation (sight seeing in Africa). Basically low pressure but with lot of interaction. We liked each other and started seeing each other after the vacation. End of story. Bars and clubs never worked for me, sport did though :-)

Crucial lesson that I’ve learned the hard way: never make decisions regarding spiritual and irrational side of your life with your rational brain.

Unless you consider a wife as purely a business partner with concrete common goals in mind.

This sounds cheesy but its true nonetheless - don’t go from your mind (he is always looking for more and always unsatisfied), go from your heart.

On the technical side - i’d just expose myself more to various social contexts, would be more proactive in starting meaningful conversations, would take more responsibility for the interaction (not for control over other party’s reactions), would say no more often, would believe in myself more and trusted my intuition, would waste less time just trying to get laid.

I think these are mostly good advices.

This book helped me think rationally about the problem space: How To Get A Date Worth Keeping by Henry Cloud.

He has a systematic approach that is very much like a sales funnel. The idea is to maximize the number of people you date once, and thus increase your probability of finding someone who will be mutually compatible with you.

I'm sorry, but from your description of the approach it's almost completely worthless.

I really dislike comments like these, especially on HN. "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." is in the HN guidelines.

It is better to explain what exactly you find objectionable about the parent's comment.

Sort of hard to explain, but I'll try.

> He has a systematic approach that is very much like a sales funnel.

The original question seems fundamentally different, and the results could dangerously differ from the desired, to the point of dropping everything and starting from scratch, including unlearning the approach.

I think when they say sales funnel they mean trying to meet as many women as possible so that one has the highest chance of finding a partner. That is similar in sales where only with a consistent flow of leads can one make sales well. If it is as how I understand it, then I don't see anything wrong with that approach.

> That is similar in sales where only with a consistent flow of leads can one make sales well. If it is as how I understand it, then I don't see anything wrong with that approach.

It is important to have exposure to the opportunities, but comparing it to sales is really counterproductive. In case of sales one has a clear criteria for success, while in searching a person the process could be much more important.

The criteria for success are to learn more about yourself, learn about other people, keep your head, and be dating someone exclusively at some point in the near future (he says 6 months or less if you use this method) with an eye towards potentially marrying that person.

The similarity to sales is just in increasing leads. He says that's often the primary hurdle people need to get over -- to take the pressure off and keep expectations low when taking someone out on a first date, and to have lots of "first dates" with lots of people, keeping a very open mind about the types you'll consider dating once.

Dating for me always had heavy emotional overtones and expectations, to the point where I felt like I had to have a "good sense" that someone was a potential good match before asking them on a date.

His framework was helpful to me because it was enabled me to start using my brain and thinking rationally (instead of emotionally) about the problem, and to lower the pressure and my own expectations about dating.

That being said, it would have been super helpful for me if there had been a book geared towards folks on the Aspergers/Autism spectrum explaining the unique pitfalls relationships can encounter when one person is on the spectrum... though I didn't know I was on the spectrum at the time.

On the other hand, I have a friend who adopted this approach and it turned out to be the source of their problems. I'm not saying it's a bad approach, just that at some point you have to go from dating -> feel something serious -> commitment at some level, and there's some tension there between "maximizing your dating pool" and "committing to one relationship."

I don't mean anything like "being monogamous is difficult" what I mean is mentally there's a shift involved as you progress, and the relationship is as much a function of what you put into it as what the other person is providing you. If you're in "evaluating your partner mode" perpetually, you'll never get to the next stage.

Or something like that.

Indian here (from southern part): My physical attribute, 5'2 (short but not dwarf), Wheatish color. In India most of the marriage will be arranged, so I'm trying for arrange marriage, I'm searching from past 3 years, rejected by 200 odd potential bride because of my height and we don't have a own place of in city (but we have in village, as of now staying at a rented place in city). Even my love proposal in past was rejected either by my financial condition or by my height. the girl is 5ft is also expecting 5'5 above. I don't know why girls prefer height over everything. The only reason I'm being considered in few scenario is my education background and my salary. We as a family were from lower middle class, due to my and my brother earning we are kind of between upper middle and middle class. I tried bumble, nothing worked there too. Any suggestion please?

Marginal Revolution recently had a good discussion:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/01/ad...

You have to see people. This could be hard, for introverts, but this is almost a requirements both for direct goal and for finding ways to the goal - in other words, you'll learn what to do better the more people you're contacting.

Half the people I know and work with (Indian) had arranged marriages and all seem to be pretty happy. The idea of hoping everything works out randomly with no planning or reference is kind of terrifying to me.

I know examples when people consider arranged marriages the same as involuntary marriages by definition.

I never searched for a wife, never aspired to "find a wife", never particularly wanted a wife.

I just went about with my life and a wife suddenly appeared. (To be fair, first she was just a girl, then a friend, then a girlfriend and then a wife).

You can increase the probability that a wife appears in much the same way catch new pokemon, by moving around, even if you're just moving between the same two tiles.

So, to repeat what everyone else said, don't be hunting, and don't worry about it, enjoy your life and be social in situations where you feel comfortable.

That's really great that it worked out for you like that :-)

It doesn't always turn out easily for people, though. I had been wanting to marry for several years before I finally met the woman I married.

I agree, though, that meeting people in low-pressure social contexts is the best way forward.

For me, online dating worked out, but it took a long time, was a bumpy road. I found that having a great group of friends also helped me. After college I moved to a new city and a corporate job with a skewed gender ratio, which made it tough to meet people, and probably made me a less desirable mate (having thin social connections). When I moved back closer to home, to people I knew, and found a job at a smaller company I enjoyed, things fell into place — even people you meet online will need to fit into your irl life eventually.

I'm not too sure. Both my wife and I were in the navy when we met. We were drinking together at a party, she ended up punching me in the face (she still maintains it was an accident) and now we are married with two kids.

Edit: However we were friends for a long time after that and ended up just giving it a shot. We were not dating for long (3 months) when she became pregnant and we married.

There's three ways:

1) Meet people doing hobbies/outside of work activities (You take art classes at the local community college, meet a nice girl, etc)

2) Meet people through dating sites (match.com, tinder, etc)

3) Meet people through friends (Your friend has game night at their house, invites a single girl, you two hit it off)

> 1) Meet people doing hobbies/outside of work activities (You take art classes at the local community college, meet a nice girl, etc)

Good approach. In general, finding people like the original question suggests is a lot of work.

> 2) Meet people through dating sites (match.com, tinder, etc)

A great deal of work and patience - with no guarantees - but for some this could be preferable. Still, I'd hesitate recommending this.

> 3) Meet people through friends (Your friend has game night at their house, invites a single girl, you two hit it off)

Might bring good results, but you have to have good friends - both a lot of them, and those should have those required connections in society. Develop this even if it won't bring you to the main goal, the secondary goals are still worthy.

4) most marriages occur with people who know each other from workplace

I would just go to places where I can expect to meet people: some social clubs, meetups, various gatherings and etc. Those are much more pleasant places to talk to people. Online dating has its place too,but in my opinion it's like a commodity market nowadays.

Go for a professional match-making service in your city. They will understand your needs and set you up for several dates with different women who also desire to get married.

“Modern Romance” by Aziz Ansari is an interesting and entertaining read.

During an airborne plague? That's tough. I probably wouldn't date until something major shifted with being able to protect yourself....which is a terrible plan, I'm just telling you how I feel as of today.

This is how you "protect yourself" dating during COVID:

https://www.thesun.ie/fabulous/6112479/covid-sex-positions-l...

online dating.

Cheap and almost worthless by itself - a lot of work is required to make this approach bring results.

It lets you meet more people than you would otherwise (this is helpful especially in the pandemic). The rest is up to you.

It lets you meet people in certain ways, which are not very compatible with the goal. You're limited in options.

>>>I'm an American man in my late 20s/early 30s in a large city

1. What is your long-term objective for marriage? If the answer does NOT include "successfully raise well-adjusted children in a 2-parent household", then don't even waste your time with a marriage. It's an unnecessary legal entanglement if you just want to bang someone and hang out with them for a few decades.

2. Before digging deeper into your wife search, maximize your own attractiveness. This requires a serious period of introspection and self-improvement to correct deficiencies both in character and in physical appearance. There's plenty of solid "manosphere" content on the subject. Try to avoid most of the PUA psychology stuff, except for: tips on overcoming "approach anxiety", "maintaining frame", "abundance mentality", and avoiding "pedestalization".

3. If you are decently attractive, decently charismatic, and in an above-average economic bracket (let's just say debt-free and ~$75k+ annual income), understand that in the GLOBAL dating pool, you are holding the cards. YOU are the commodity. You are the one screening an abundance of applicants for the job position of "spouse", looking to disqualify the bulk of them. So get the fuck out of the United States and date internationally. Especially outside of "the West". It's really not THAT hard to find a woman who is moderately cute, not annoying, with sufficient domestic skills to maintain a household, and a consistently-loving demeanor to take the lead on childrearing. Which leads to my next point:

4. What kind of women are you physically attracted to? The US is a nation of immigrants. It's best to "go to the source" to get the pure uncut product, so-to-speak. If you like blondes, move to Scandinavia to wife-hunt. You like Latin women? Move to Colombia or Chile. "Lightskin" Asians? I would say Japan, but this place is essentially locked down due to COVID..."Darkskin" Asians? Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam. Black women? Don't date an African-American woman (binge watch some Kevin Samuels videos on YT to see why), go get a proper African from Kenya or Tanzania. Etc, etc....

5. Once you are in your target market, leverage benign social circle activities. English-language meetups, coffee shops, local guy friends (don't have some? make some), religious institutions if you are into that. Do NOT wife-hunt on Tinder/Bumble unless you are extremely adept at sniffing out women trying to take advantage of you. Swipe dating is fine if you just need to get some exercise in the bedroom but I generally discourage treating any of those connections as serious long-term prospects.

6. I suppose some of this is dependent on YOUR character and what you like, but I'd screen women based on their family background (are her parents still happily married? ), psychological issues, alcohol/drug abuse, previous relationships (if any), etc... basically disqualify anyone who looks like they might be damaged goods, excessively emotional, unpredictable, etc... When things get serious, definitely get to know her parents if possible.

7. Never repatriate your new spouse back to the United States. Removing them from the family and culture that turned them into such a quality wife undermines all of your efforts. The culture AND the legal framework in the US are toxic and destructive. Keep in mind that ~50% of marriages end in divorce, ~70% of those divorces are initiated by the female, and divorce court will absolutely demolish you with alimony and/or child support payments. NEVER give the US legal system, combined with a woman's whims, the opportunity to fuck your life up.

Good luck/happy hunting! Enjoy the process!

dons flamesuit (IME no-BS dating advice for men on HN is rarely well-received)

Some good points, but some are less so.

> If the answer does NOT include "successfully raise well-adjusted children in a 2-parent household", then don't even waste your time with a marriage.

A good counter argument could be - what if your plans could change? Should you keep this change of plans possible?

> You are the one screening an abundance of applicants for the job position of "spouse", looking to disqualify the bulk of them.

Don't forget the rather plausibly-looking model when the better you are, the higher bar you have to satisfy you, so of course you'll have to disqualify the discouraging bulk and be left with the pool smaller and harder the more achieving you are.

> Never repatriate your new spouse back to the United States.

If you're planning to live in US, this advice may cost you dearly. A woman disconnected from her roots and struggling to find her new place in society is something I wouldn't recommend to be near as the cause of issues.

>>>A good counter argument could be - what if your plans could change? Should you keep this change of plans possible?

A multi-year dating period is advisable. Definitely don't RUSH into popping out babies, but don't wait too long either. That's a difficult needle to thread. But I would think figuring out whether to propagate your genes in an supportive social construct, or not, is something a man has figured out by his early 30's.

>>>Don't forget the rather plausibly-looking model when the better you are, the higher bar you have to satisfy you

Hence why knowing YOURSELF is so important in mate-hunting. A high-flying extrovert might require a dime-piece social butterfly "trophy wife" as essential for impressing his peers, and needs that external validation. YMMV. But IME men "date down" to an adequate woman far far more than women do, so guys insisting on ONLY the absolutely cream of the cream for a spouse are an outlier, and unlikely to be seriously getting advice on HN for that search.

>>>A woman disconnected from her roots and struggling to find her new place in society is something I wouldn't recommend to be near as the cause of issues.

Exactly. Actually a former fling of mine was in just such a situation. Spent years in the Atlanta suburbs a bored housewife. She couldn't work because they didn't have a second car. She felt so isolated and useless that she divorced her husband and moved back to Japan. Now she's 40 and wondering why nobody here wants a serious relationship. shrug

> dons flamesuit (IME no-BS dating advice for men on HN is rarely well-received)

I mean, when you say stuff like

> don't date African-American women

> find a wife outside The West with good domestic skills

> don't repatriate your spouse

It's hard to take your overall advice seriously, even if some of it (like not needing to get legally married). It seems more like you're looking for a servant than a partner, and it's very "trad-wife" esque.

I'm operating from a value framework that aims for building and maintaining multi-generational wealth. The family unit is the most basic, and arguably most important, institution over which we can exert influence. Can't link a relevant book on the subject (sorry, don't have my Amazon purchase history handy), but examine the practices of families that have been wealthy for in excess of 3 generations, and you will often find patterns of behavior that are completely contrary to "conventional wisdom" about marriage, relationships, dating, and family life....especially in the age of third-wave feminism.

>>> like you're looking for a servant than a partner

Who is more the servant, the adult who has the option to spend an entire day inside a physically-secure domicile, or the adult who risks death stepping outside the home 5 days per week (men make up 90% of workplace fatalities, and simply commuting to work on US roadways is a high risk activity)?

We recognize that labor specialization and comparative advantage are some of the most basic and powerful amplifiers of efficiency in an economy. Why would we not apply the same principles to our own household?

Or we can keep doing what we are doing, listening to the advice of charlatans [1]. That has led to women on anti-depressants [2], women unhappy [3][4], single parent (overwhelmingly single mother) homes [5] producing higher rates of maladjusted children [6], and a slew of other issues. Who paid for Cosmo to publish trash for decades? Qui bono? Maybe the same people who leveraged Edward Bernays to get men to buy diamonds? Why would we blindly embracing nerfing the efficiency of the economic and social construct that directly benefits us the most (the family unit)? Meanwhile the richest ~500 FAMILIES in the US are basically robbing the rest of us blind.

>>>it's very "trad-wife" esque

Sure, and it may be strange to those living in the West, but outside the West, "trad-wife" is rather popular with women. Hence why I would overwhelming encourage American men to abandon the US dating market and find what they are looking for elsewhere.

[1] https://www.suzannevenker.com/the-suzanne-suzanne-venker-sho...

[2] https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/09/04/Antidepressant-us...

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-...

[4] https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Intel...

[5] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-childre...

[6] https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/the-real-c...

> Sure, and it may be strange to those living in the West, but outside the West, "trad-wife" is rather popular with women.

While I'm not sure that I agree with you in general, you are absolutely right about this. My Russian (girl)friends won't stop going on about how sorry they feel for the poor career oriented western women wasting their lives at the office working for someone else, when they could instead be working on their family.

It's not like these girls are lazy either, many of them work full time to look beautiful. A fair bargain for many husbands.

But I guess westerners are likely to view this either as abusive or transactional, not a healthy relationship. They'd be wrong though.

This level of insanity doesn't have a place on HN. This isn't 4chan or the 18th century, what the f*ck is wrong with you?

Try the wife store or order one from wife.com. Since you are already married, I guess you are looking for a sister wife? Maybe a vacation in Utah is all you need.

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