Comment by mcintyre1994 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mcintyre1994 | Hacker News Reader

I’m not sure how much cut through this has had outside of the UK, but the government are currently in serious trouble because of constant leaks about parties in Number 10 Downing Street during the pandemic - including a particularly poorly timed one the day before the Queen was photographed at her husband’s funeral alone.

The leaks are ongoing, so we know that this particular plan is part of “Operation Red Meat”, which might be familiar if you’ve heard “red meat for the base”. That’s what this is. It’s going to cause serious problems for the BBC while this government remains in power, but this isn’t a serious proposal for the future of that organisation. It’s an effort to get furious Conservative supporters back on side and secure Boris Johnson’s position.

Other aspects of Operation Red Meat are reported to be military involvement at the Channel Crossing, and a ban on alcohol in Number 10. There’s another set of plans called Operation Save Big Dog too, which mostly seem to involve firing a bunch of other senior figures.

Some more info: https://www.politics.co.uk/news-in-brief/pm-working-on-serie...

Only to answer your question about the party scandals - it totally made its way across the Atlantic. The severity of the scandal has been stated but is not obvious (Boris May lose his prime ministership over this?) However, it was drowned out by the ouster of Phillip.

What I don't get is why the conservatives were so draconian over covid. Your partner is dying, you can't see them. Folks couldn't walk around outside. Some guy driving to walk around outside was like national news.

I mean, if you go to this extreme, and then are throwing parties. (Rules for thee, not for me) it would make me furious as well. Let me go sit on the beach with sunshine and fresh air instead of having to cram into a grocery store or whatever.

In the US DeSantis or whatever right wing politico could easily go to a public event, not because its a good idea, but because they haven't banned others from going to activities.

They went draconian because the media pushed for it and the public seemed to support it.

Righto, it was "the medias" fault, not the government running the country for 10+ years.

It is in Tory DNA to be authoritarian, the pandemic was simply an opportunity to act on those impulses. While laughing about it from No. 10 (see Cummings, the parties, et al).

The UK is barely-democratic. All key decisions are controlled by Westminster and number 10. The rights under devolution for Scotland and Wales (such as they are) are "lent" and can be taken back.

Real democracies have regional federated governments with real powers to set taxes etc. The UK is a bureaucratic monolith with almost 70 million people controlled by one office in Westminster.

I think only France has a similar centralization of power.

A strong centralized democracy with very little in terms of local government is not an outlier; it's the norm. Europe and Africa mostly run on central authority, as does Ireland. I think your view is skewed because you're an American (I think?)

Yes there are certainly other centralized democracies. The UK and France have some of the largest populations under such a system however, by a decent amount to my knowledge.

They completely messed up their response to covid, had partial lockdowns that didn't work and thus went on longer, didn't screen people coming into the country, didn't shut schools for ages, and now UK has the highest infection rate of any large country, 22%.

Yet still half of the conservatives are against the meager restrictions we have now, want to get rid of asking people nicely to wear masks.

>What I don't get is why the conservatives were so draconian over covid.

Because hundreds of people were dying every day? Because that would have been worse without widespread restrictions?

But you can't have it both ways. If you do lockdown etc, you can't then throw parties.

In the US some right wing folks didn't do the full lockdowns. My point was if they are "caught" out at the beach, regardless of if it is bad health policy, folks won't be as mad.

What makes folks mad is the lockdown, then the party, the beach, the fancy dinner. So yeah, Boris is going to be hurting from this, because its infuriating.

Your comment does't make any sense. You are saying that the Conservative party are making this huge change to distract from their current problems. Are you saying they created the entire plan in a few weeks? Do you have any evidence for your extraordinary claims?

You are giving this Conservative government far to much credit. Their entire track record in government is full of poorly thought out sweeping changes. (See the entire Brexit process)

You need to distinguish between the Conservative government (= Boris Johnson' Lying Circus) and the Conservative Party. The latter are not well pleased with the former.

Have you not encountered the UK Conservative Party before? This is absolutely their modus operandi.

This is not the first occurrence of a scandal from this government; and it's not the first time that they have thrown out as many back-burner ideas as possible in the rush to replace the headlines with something more palatable.

In a notable previous instance, the prime minister's wife announced her pregnancy in the hours following a scandal breaking. Months later, they announced the birth of the child shortly after another scandal broke out.

Hence this fairly amusing parody tweet:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/14808339950216929...

This change is more likely a threat to the BBC at a time when they furiously engaged in damage control.

It can be rolled back if they "behave".

Theyve been making variations of this threat for decades.

The thing is though, none of the leaks have been via the BBC, every single one is via an independent paper or channel - even traditionally right wing publications.

The other angle of this is how much Boris and this government are in debt/the pocket of Murdoch and News Corp. Boris and senior government ministers met with Murdoch and News Copt executives 40 times in the first 14 months of Boris’s government. This is as much about raining the BBC in so that Murdoch can have more control of the media landscape in the UK.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/rupert-murdochs-news-corp-met-min...

Murdoch's been crying about the BBC and the license fee for decades. They are no doubt aware that canceling the BBC would put them even more at his mercy, so in this instance I can see why they might not cave.

That's what multiple newspapers including The Times are reporting, yes.

Since Boris' job is on the line, he's apparently panicking and due to roll out a series of popularist policies next week.

Boris is finished, he probably won't last the week. It reminds me of the day when Thatcher fell. Leading Conservative MPs will be currently phoning each other trying to determine how much support they will get if they make a move. Someone who has no serious chance will be nominated as a 'stalking horse' to stand up and challenge Boris. Then the other stronger candidates will put themselves forward to 'save the name of the party'. That is how they do it.

it's pretty impressive he survived every single previous controversy and even managed to get brexit through... if he's going to be felled by a badly timed and ill-advised party.

> Boris is finished, he probably won't last the week.

I've lost track of how many times I've heard this over the past 3 years

>Someone who has no serious chance will be nominated as a 'stalking horse' to stand up and challenge Boris. Then the other stronger candidates will put themselves forward to 'save the name of the party'. That is how they do it.

There doesn't need to be a stalking horse any more. Once 54 letters have been submitted to the 1922 Committee then a Vote of No Confidence is held amongst Tory MPs by secret ballot. If he loses then there's a leadership election.

It used to be the case that a sitting leader had to be formally challenged (which was usually done by a stalking horse), but the rules were changed a long time ago and it's not necessary any more.

We do still seem to get the stalking horse candidate, possibly just for tradition's sake. See Rory Stewart.

This is relatively normal standard operating procedure for this Government.

Throw out loads of policies at the exact moment something bad for the cabinet is starting to gain traction.

It's a perfect example of a "dead cat on the table."[1]

Also, > Are you saying they created the entire plan in a few weeks?

They frequently toss out new "plans" in response to news events, anger in the base, scandals, etc. which have -clearly- been thought up in a hurry as a distraction and will be silently forgotten / dumped when no longer needed as a news-based base-fury-whip.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy

> Do you have any evidence for your extraordinary claims?

Anyone who has ever interacted with politicians knows that “The Thick Of It” is a documentary, not a comedy. These are not extraordinary claims at all. Wouldn’t surprise me if Priti wrote the tweet on the toilet with an aide firing suggestions through the door before one stuck.

Plan?

originally from the Sunday Times, pasted here because paywall https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/s54g7c/boris_jo...

The other changes are:

•Announce a No 10 workplace “booze ban” in an effort to end the drinking culture in “Club Downing Street”.

•Freeze the BBC licence fee for two years to help the cost of living.

•Hand to the military control of the battle to stop illegal immigrants in the Channel.

•Unveil new plans to tackle the backlog of operations in the NHS.

•Unveil extra money for skills and job training for the 1.5 million people who are out of work and on universal credit.

•Lift the remaining coronavirus restrictions on January 26.

•Publish Michael Gove’s levelling-up white paper the following week. It aims to improve lives in neglected towns in the north.

> •Freeze the BBC licence fee for two years to help the cost of living.

Hilarious. Even a 10% License Fee increase would cost about £8 per adult per year

Meanwhile the tax rise they're implementing next month will cost an average £300 per adult per year, and increase costs on employers by the same amount.

Old people, who pay less tax usually, also watch a lot of TV, and vote in their droves for Conservatives

Yes, the current government is in complete shambles, but the arguments against funding the BBC with a TV License have been made for many years. It's not just hot air from Number 10 trying to prevent bad headlines. Netflix has proven that the subscription model is perfectly viable, meaning there's little justification to make someone a criminal for watching late night shopping channels without first having paid the BBC.

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