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Comment by fallingknife | Hacker News Reader

I used to work in the oilfield. We had to be clean shaven on site because in an emergency we may be required to use masks, and your face needs to be clean shaven to form a seal. That's how things are done when there is a real safety risk. The lack of CDC guidance on this point speaks volumes as to how serious this is.

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They kind of do https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effect...

Also https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017...

Yeah, I know they are aware of the concept. It's just that they are mandating masks, but barely mentioning the facial hair issue outside of a few publications that, lets face it, basically nobody reads. It just screams politics over actual safety.

given the hysteric reaction of the American public to mask mandates I don't want to know what happens if the government tells people to shave. It sure does smell of politics but not from the CDCs side, they just have to make guidelines under consideration of how the public reacts

Within 10 minutes you'd probably have discrimination claims from angry hipsters, barbershops and a dozen different religious groups or something.

In the US requiring everyone to be clean shaven would be a clear infringement of the religious freedom rights of many people. It would be a non-starter from the get go.

It'd be interesting to see people getting denied a religious exemption against shaving because some bureaucrat wanted to flex a bit more power a bit longer.

We can barely get folks to wear the things in the first place, let alone over the nose. You want the CDC to add "oh and you have to shave your beard off" to the mix? Really?

If you're not ready to require that the masks be effective, why require them at all?

Because effectiveness is not binary.

It was very well publicized back on summer 2020. How often do you want the CDC to repeat it?

When authorities are spot-checking your mask fit you run the risking of crossing into "you're under arrest because we don't like your face" territory.

The CDC have you covered: Facial Hairstyles and Filtering Facepiece Respirators

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/FacialHairWmask11282017...

A perfect seal is somewhat more important in that situation than going to the grocery store.

Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95.

When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments.

Firefighters and other emergency responders are generally required to shave for this reason.

> Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95.

Yes. A little stubble, less so. (I'd wager it's still fairly effective at keeping the wearer's germs in, though.)

> When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments.

Sure, but as with the oil worker example, that's a slightly different scenario than a member of the general public going to the grocery store.

This has been studied. A beard does compromise the seal, but to a lesser extent on n95s than in other masks:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/

0 to 10mm!? Some study. That’s barely a beard. Loses 40% effectivenes at 10mm.

No, that's the figure for KF94 and KN95 masks. For N95s it's only about a 20% loss of FFE.

> The lack of CDC guidance on this point speaks volumes as to how serious this is.

It speaks volumes, at least. Heckuva job, Brownie.

I'm still flummoxed by Fauci's -- let's call it -- equivocation about masks being pointless, for which he later apologized and explained he was trying to conserve the supply of N95s for medical personnel. There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play.

If they really believed it were that serious, I hardly trust they'd do any more than cover their assess.

His boss at the time did have him on a leash.

> There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play.

When they decided they had to skip Xi variant, it was made pretty clear that the patricians have no intention of leveling with the plebs again.

It speaks to the politics of it more than the science.

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