The Zen of Drinking Alone
drunkard.com
drunkard.com
I wish I could still do it, but I found myself waiting for the liquor store to open up at 7:00 am to get rid of the shakes. Then when I tried to stop I couldn't. Long story short, after several rehabs, more stints in mental health lockup than I care to remember, and burning through more sponsers in AA that I can count, I finally was able to stop.
"Cunning, baffling and powerful" is how Bill Wilson, founder of AA called alcohol for those of us who are "real alcoholics" or if you prefer
“Everyone knows that dragons don't exist. But while this simplistic formulation may satisfy the layman, it does not suffice for the scientific mind. The School of Higher Neantical Nillity is in fact wholly unconcerned with what does exist. Indeed, the banality of existence has been so amply demonstrated, there is no need for us to discuss it any further here. The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each non-existed in an entirely different way.”
— Stanisław Lem
p.s. There is a tradition of the Drunken Zen Master but it's archaic. We all know better now.
Yet he got drunk again. We asked him to tell us exactly how it happened. This is his story: "I came to work on Tuesday morning. I remember I felt irritated that I had to be a salesman for a concern I once owned. I had a few words with the boss, but nothing serious. Then I decided to drive into the country and see one of my prospects for a car. On the way I felt hungry so I stopped at a roadside place where they have a bar. I had no intention of drinking. I just thought I would get a sandwich. I also had the notion that I might find a customer for a car at this place, which was familiar for I had been going to it for years. I had eaten there many times during the months I was sober. I sat down at a table and ordered a sandwich and a glass of milk. Still no thought of drinking. I ordered another sandwich and decided to have another glass of milk.
"Suddenly the thought crossed my mind that if I were to put an ounce of whiskey in my milk it couldn't hurt me on a full stomach. I ordered a whiskey and poured it into the milk. I vaguely sensed I was not being any too smart, but felt reassured as I was taking the whiskey on a full stomach. The experiment went so well that I ordered another whiskey and poured it into more milk. That didn't seem to bother me so I tried another."
Thus started one more journey to the asylum for Jim. Here was the threat of commitment, the loss of family and position, to say nothing of that intense mental and physical suffering which drinking always caused him. He had much knowledge about himself as an alcoholic. Yet all reasons for not drinking were
So the problem here is going into a type of trance or hypnotic state, where you forget that you shouldn't drink. Have you ever gone into the next room and then forgotten why you went there or driven for many miles in the car and not noticed anything, but suddenly you "wake up" and notice where you are? That's a kind of trance. Stephen Wolinsky has a good book called "Trances People Live" [3] That I found helpful. Some people are always in an emotional bind that looks like a trance.
In order to quit drinking I had to wake up and remain awake, develop situational awareness, use tools like meditation and Cognitive Behavior Therapy, and a big one is deal with my traumas. I had some that I ignored or laughed at and minimized, but turns out traumas caused me to "space out" more than anything.
You ask an alcoholic why they drank again and they can't tell you why. They don't know. Drinking because you went in a trance state is a really difficult problem to solve and the reason most alcoholics don't recover.
Hope this helps.
Edit: I forgot to add that doing the 4th step is like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and doing the 5th step is like Cognitive Processing Therapy (for trauma) so you can get those for free in AA
[1] I use the term real because some of us in AA use it to distinguish ourselves from people that have 1 too many glasses of wine in the evening and then go to AA as a social club and call themselves alcoholic. I avoid meetings with too many of those.
[2] https://anonpress.org/bb/Page_36.htm
[3] https://www.google.com/books/edition/Trances_People_Live/yyy...
It wasn't until about two years later until I would have several days without cravings.
10 years later, I get cravings maybe once every few months and they are easy to let go of. Two days ago I got into a Lyft and someone dropped a pack of cigarettes in the back seat. The temptation was moderate to take them.
I think in part the brain hardwires to confuse nicotine as a type of food. Do not eat for two days, and that is what a smoker feels like for the first 2 weeks. Do not eat fir a day and that is what the first 3 months felt like (all the time, constantly). Your mind is telling you that you will literally die if you don't resolve the urge.
I think this is why relapse is so high for nicotine. You have to be consistently strong every time for months to almost be hone free. During that 7 years I had relapses usually after days, a few times I made it a week or two, once I went 3 months, and had gone 6 months twice as well before relapse.
FWIW, a person just has to keep trying. I admitted that 1) I deeply loved smoking. It is amazing. 2) there is no such thing as one last cigarette. Relapse would likely occur, and when that happens, my cessation efforts would continue.
As for alcohol, I'll just say that as incompatible as withdrawal is with holding down a job... being drunk is pretty incompatible too. I think if you can finesse one, you can probable finesse the other.
In general, my observation has been that as horrible as withdrawal is, that's the easiest part of kicking a habit.
It's definitely hard but the "just say no" approach can work. I do recommend taking it one at a time though. Once you've cut out one thing successfully, add another.
I lost 90 lbs with this approach.
It's harder, but the biggest trick was learning to pay attention to what my body was telling me, stop when it first gave me a sign to stop, don't start until it gave me a signal to start, and also... realizing that if you're obese (as opposed to an underweight person with an eating disorder), that maybe spending a part of your day feeling hungry is a sign that you are taking care of yourself. That sounds pretty simple too when you write it out like that, but my goodness just doing that is a so hard (yet effective).
Yes - may as well feel positive associations with hunger.
Just as many alcoholics can't handle a glass of wine with dinner or a beer with a friend on a Friday night, many food addicts just can't handle sugar or fast food at all, and would be better off cutting these things out of their lives entirely. It's a more hardcore lifestyle change, but it can also be a psychologically simpler ruleset to follow.
It's a hardcore change but "simple" to follow? Isn't that part of the problem? The physical and mental are tightly interwoven. Telling someone they should just eat vegetables and chicken breasts ignores all of the other problems, mental and physical, that could be leading someone to unhealthy habits. In fact, a "ruleset" like this could contribute to further psychological problems and then further physical problems. This is the issue with diets, they ignore all the other factors outside of food.
I ask because on the one hand it’s fair to say that I’ve never suffered. Not like my wife. Not like many on this board.
On the other I have have a pain, and I know where it’s from, but it seems so idiotic compared to what others have suffered.
And yet I seek escapism, the trance state where I try to forget my existence.
Perhaps part of you views it as “idiotic” because it is reluctant to address it?
I've read the big book, and consider it a source of wisdom, even if I perhaps don't follow all of the tenants contained within.
The serenity prayer, which is AA adjacent if not (now) directly part of the AA wisdom is my personal lodestar, it's great wisdom on how to deal with life's challenges.
From it I ascertained that the first two questions one should ask are when encountering something in life are, "is this actually important?" and "is this a problem I can actually solve or make a meaningful difference in helping solve?" - anything one can answer "no" to either of those questions one should just let go of, and try to focus one's energies on other problems.
Also, I'm glad for you, that you found sobriety.
I found the Personal Stories/Testimonies section to be pretty relevant for me, others may find other things. AA fundamentally is the best tool you can find to get you sober, and keep you sober, but it in some ways IMO, works as an addiction transference program. But if you need to stabilize your life, and find your own path to permanent sobriety, AA is literally the best tool you can find to do it.
I personally have not tried it, but some people use a system called The Sinclair Method (TSM) whereby you take naltrexone prior to drinking, and it is supposed to reduce both the enjoyment you get from alcohol as well as your craving for it, so you would end up drinking much less than normal. I know on reddit, r/Alcoholism_Medication/ has a lot of discussion and resources on it.
The answer varies where I might send you to seek help.
I avoided AA due to the quasi-religious aspect, but Smart Recovery meetings helped me in the initial phase (https://www.smartrecovery.org).
I was always concerned about the longer term aspect of replacing alcohol in social settings, and there is still some awkwardness there but non-alcoholic beers have really helped for me. The scene has exploded in recent years and they're really quite good, see Athletic Brewing for some excellent craft non-alcoholic beers (https://athleticbrewing.com). In a social setting you could be drinking one and nobody would have to know. I don't hide it but I'm still glad to have something "special" to drink at an occasion. And I drink them alone too: they fill that role of something to drink when I want to relax, and I enjoy that placebo effect.
It did nothing for the underlying causes of my wanting to be inebriated of course, but the "I can't think about anything else until I've had a drink" just disappeared.
Breaking the habit? Have the will to stop. That's both hard and easy. But you didn't ask the question because you don't want to carry on so there's a plus.
I drink as much regular milk as I can when I feel the urges: this is because whacking down beer after it just feels sloshy in the stomach: not unpleasant, just 'sloshy'. And pointless..it takes too long to get drunk.
So, I've pretty much banished the beer of late.
To keep away the demons - when I absolutely feel a binge coming on, I keep a mouthful of liquorice 26% alc in my mouth for as long as possible (as well as having had the milk).
Happy to say I've not been fucked up for well over two months now, and have done several stretches of 5-8-10 and a 14 days with zero alcohol in the last three months.
That's a success, as I've been pretty much drunk for the last 8 years.
And, I didn't stop to buy a crate of beer today - there's none in the house, either.
How some people can function while drinking every night is beyond my comprehension.
I need about 150ml vodka and 3 beers to get to the state I want. It wasn't always that way, of course, but it escalated gradually. I don't sleep well, but oh well. It's worth it, in a way. I can forget about my troubles, my bad pay, and my work pressure by drinking and watching movies or playing video games at the same time.
The next day? Sometimes I wake up with a headache. Not often, now that I know exactly how much water I need to drink before I sleep to avoid that. But the next day is always normal and I'm pretty well functioning, if lazy and procrastinating. I just need a 20 min nap after 12pm and I'm pretty much set to function.
Will I stop? I don't know. These things on my mind may seem utterly trivial to some. I wasn't abused, I haven't lost anyone in my family, I live fairly comfortably. But I need to get my mind off those thoughts. I can go days at a time, even weeks, without feeling the need to drink, so long as I just forget about its feeling. But why would I do that? When I have a 2L bottle of vodka and an 18 back of 5% beers? With them, I can enjoy the night more than I would otherwise. That's got to be worth something, at least to me.
This puts succinctly something I try to practice that I likely got from the same source. My parents were both in AA for the entire time I knew them and I was carried along to many meetings and, later, went along with them of my own volition. I have a great respect for the organization and, especially, the people humble enough to recognize their need for support.
I'm really glad there are others that were able to absorb the AA adjacent wisdom, and transform it into something productive like I was.
The Monday rule is two fold. First it is a weekly check on alcohol seeking behavior. It is also because all the reasons I can think of for drinking on a Monday are not reasons I want to be drinking. Having a rule helps avoid bad habits.
This is also a teaching of stoicism. Focus only on those things you can actually change and understand that your reaction to external things is under your control
“The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own…” – Epictetus
“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” ― Marcus Aurelius
I don’t even take my full low dose during the day as I don’t like the way it makes me feel (though it’s a very effective drug for me).
Gabapentin is often prescribed for depression. It can be taken with other antidepressants. I’ve heard it can cause severe weight gain via water weight and bloating.
I don't know if it makes a difference but my alcohol of choice was beer and I consumed between 10-15 every night for around a decade. I still would consider myself an alcoholic because if I drink even one beer, I am going to keep drinking until they are all gone, but I guess I have the ability or wisdom to choose not to have that first drink, or maybe I'm just co-dependent without anyone to make it happen. Lucky for me I suppose.
So first beer has an effect and you can make the decision whether you want that effect (with its pros and cons) or not. But if you say yes, then there is less reason to say no to the 2nd drink. After 2nd drink there is even less reason to say no to the 3rd and so on.
So when you contemplate taking that first drink ask yourself: If I do, is there any reason why I wouldn't keep on drinking after this first drink? And by the logic above, there really is less of a reason to say no to the 2nd drink than the first and so on.
But curiously and luckily this logic means that there is also a big reason to NOT have that first drink, because you can assume that its effect is not only the effect that one glass has on you, but also the effect that it makes you drink more. That is a good reason to not drink the first drink. If you don't say no now, why would you say no later?
So I wouldn't consider you an alcoholic just because your first beer leads to the 2nd and so on. You are not alcoholic you are just being logical. If you have a reason to drink the first beer then you also have a reason to drink the 2nd and so on. But luckily because you are logical you can see that it is not a good idea to drink that first beer in the first place.
The sheer insanity of that game suits a few (by which I mean 2-3 beers, not much of a drinker) every couple of weeks.
It’s incredibly relaxing.
I drank way too much in my twenties (shitfaced every weekend which was normal in the uk back then), stopped entirely for my thirties and now stick to 2-3 once every few weeks.
Not been drunk drunk in 14 years, good on you for getting yourself sorted.
NAC a couple of hours before your drinking escapade.
A five hour energy drink the morning after. The B’s + folate really help to feel”normal” the after.
Adult drinking is preparing for and mitigating the day after effects. :)
Removing the flowery language, here are the claims and supporting arguments, along with my rebuttals.
* Drinking alone helps you understand yourself better.
- No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober.
* Drinking alone lets you drink a lot of alcohol fast, in your preferred cocktail or beverage.
- Yes and this is why it is dangerous. Drinking tasty alcohol fast is a great way to get addicted. Or at the very least damage your health, both short and long term.
* Drinking alone provides you with comfortable silence.
- Drinking has nothing to do with this. Alcohol is a non-sequitur. You have to orchestrate the silence regardless of whether alcohol is involved.
That's it. It's just repeating these 3 points in different ways.
>Are you guys for real?
>Yes. While there is some satire involved, we believe to the very core of our >souls every word we write.
>Who are you?
>We are a group of functional alcoholics based primarily in Denver, CO. Included in our ranks are published novelists, filmmakers, English gentlemen, barflies, punk rock musicians, comedians, outright dastards and admitted boozeheads.
>Do you mind the word alcoholic?
>No. We are taking it back from the fascists. Soon it will be considered a compliment.Or you know, part of the once respected in some circles tradition of self-destruction with style, before everybody started jogging and going vegan to live to 100 years old as a "productive" boring member of society...
OTOH real decadence has been more sustainable forever the less toxic it is.
style would require an edgier, more risque substance, and a narrative. but you'll never see it. i think even tweakers know better than to spend energy justifying choices to strangers
It is for these that I'm giving up alchol for other things [1]
[1]: https://idp.nature.com/authorize?response_type=cookie&client...
Why "like to be omitted"? It's actually part of the allure.
The slogan was "Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse".
Not "Eat kale, be productive, use a task management program, live to 100".
The famous people did not become famous because they drank, but due to other reasons - working their arse off, talent, ambition, networks etc. The reason they are also famous alcholics is just an correlation and not causation.
I don't judge alcohol use but it's an end in itself, and it does not improve anything.
It's nice to enjoy a drink once in a while, but it does not improve a person in any way.
I hope they all end up ok.
I still don't trust people that have never been drunks, though. There's something about the forceful rejection of social norms involved in becoming an alcoholic that I find resonates with me. It's akin to the punk ethos. The problem definitely is when people mistake being a drunk dickhead with being punk.
Funny. I've run into many more social norms that promote drinking while socializing, especially at universities and in tech.
As I was growing up I found that "straight edge" and "hardcore Christian" overlapped too much for my comfort. I chalked it up to kids trying to exude a rebellious attitude within the safe confines of the Christian narrative. That didn't seem as authentic to me as the kids who started anarchist punk or satanic grind bands.
Basically, there were some behaviors that served as the narc test. Straight edge kids had a self-declared pass because of their morals. "I don't drink, see? I have an x tattooed on my hand." Those morals conspicuously seemed to align with what "good Christian kids" were taught to believe. This was outlined in stark relief as I realized more and more bands around me labeled themselves as "Christian".
I hadn't revisited that conclusion in a long time, but a cursory glance signals to me that the logic is still sound. It seems like it was my own allergic reaction to cynicism, which I think MacKaye et al might at least respect.
While both "straight edge" and "hardcore Christian" would not drink I never found them to have much overlap or common ground beyond that. When I was growing up people who self-identified as "straight edge" where far more likely to involved in the far left, anarchist and/or anti fascist scene. I never knew someone who didn't drink for purely religious reasons to describe themselves as "straight edge".
Hemingway wrote, and Hemingway drank, but in that order on any given day.
[edit: I agree with your point, I just wanted to clarify re: Hemingway specifically]
Everything was great, if a bit intense, for the first few months. It felt like it was us against the world and we were invincible. Slowly but surely, though, cracks began to emerge. One of us would hit a rough patch, drop out, and move home (sometimes after totaling a vehicle). Others started getting into petty crime and became convinced the FBI was after us - it didn’t help that one girl’s Father actually was a fed who became increasingly concerned about his daughter’s erratic behavior. I think all of us started seeing shadow people and realized the downward spiral we were in.
Things kind of ended after that first year when most of the group couldn’t handle the lifestyle and school simultaneously. The few of us who didn’t drop out went on to varying degrees of success from solid middle and upper middle class lives to one guy who started a company and is now worth a couple hundred million. It was a crazy time with some pretty wild memories that I wouldn’t take back - but certainly wouldn’t recommend.
I've given away the ending, but his book ("This Drinking Life") is well worth reading. (As a biography, not as a guide to help anyone quit drinking).
It could be a trip into the woods, a religious retreat with other people, or a stay at a quiet hotel far from home.
I’ve done all three. When I have to make the long drive to my parents for a mandatory family get together, I’ll book a hotel halfway to take time for myself.
The idea is to get away from your normal environment and sit down with yourself. I usually bring my kindle and a notebook.
I have a prescription for benzos. I’ve used them a couple of times to help during a retreat. (And family gatherings…) But I found benzos to leave me much clearer-headed than alcohol and they don’t mess with my antidepressant.
That's fine - but to suggest alcohol is a good way to understand yourself better is bs imo. There are far better ways/substances.
Get drunk when you want to by all means, but don't try and paint it as 'good for yourself'. There are far better substances if you want to do some instrospection!
That's not what I got from the article. It seemed to me to say that alcohol could be used to get to know one's self better. Truly getting to know one's self isn't always safe. Nothing risked, nothing gained.
That's like saying to someone "instead of kinky BDSM you could accomplish the same by making sweet tender love".
I don't think it works for everybody.
I like getting drunk on my own once in a while, but I agree with the previous poster. The article is unconvincing. Nearly every point is something that doesn't need alcohol, something that is really questionable whether it's actually a good thing, or an opaque metaphor about a monkey. There are certainly advantages to drinking alone, but the article reads more like self-convincing rationalizations from an alcoholic, and fails to actually point out why alcohol is even necessary for most of this.
- No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober.
I don’t think that the fact that you disagree with a statement qualifies that statement as a syllogism.
I read those three statements as being distinct (for example “preferred cocktail” is a different subject from “comfortable silence”) though I will concede that all three statements do share a general theme of “the author enjoys drinking alone.” However, discussing various reasons for enjoying something does not qualify a statement as a syllogism.
While I also do not generally agree with the author, I’m not a big fan of “things I disagree with are Wrong in terms of fundamental logic. Anything I don’t like but Others do is wrong because those Others lack the fundamental Brain Power to Understand The World(tm) like me. To disagree with me is to commit an Aristotelian error of the highest order.”
It’s honestly an incredibly depressing attitude to come across, and it’s pretty much universally held by people that spend a lot of energy being “Not Mad” at not getting invited to parties.
Maybe you might feel differently about who is the arbiter of logic if you cracked open a nice beer?
- No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober.*
This pre-assumes you can have a honest dialog with yourself sober.
I've had plenty of interesting insights into all sorts of things while inebriated that remained interesting and insightful long after I'd sobered up. Maybe this doesn't work for you but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
(Though perhaps I could train myself mentally to be able to enter these more loose states w/o alcohol, and that would be even better?)
I quit a bit over a year ago. Never properly addicted, but Australian culture has it so firmly embedded it's scary. I'm a better person for it, and I don't miss it.
If I want to feel wasted the next day I'll do 120% in the garage gym. Under the bar I both find myself, experience euphoria afterwards, and retain the ability to be wrecked the next day should I choose to.
But it'll be a good kind of wrecked, more likely.
There's also something perverse about associating this with Zen given that abstaining from intoxicants is the fifth precept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_precepts#Fifth_precept).
I would never say there is no insight that could be gleaned from this -- people are different, after all -- but I agree with the other comment that this justifies an unhealthy adaptive strategy. We have deeper and healthier modes of self-knowledge than this.
"The most important of these cross-cultural constants in the social norms governing alcohol use is the near-universal taboo on solitary drinking. The fact that drinking is, in almost all cultures, essentially a social act, is recognised throughout the anthropological literature, and ethnographic data from a wide range of cultures indicate that solitary drinking is at the very least ‘negatively evaluated’, and often specifically proscribed."
- Drinking and masculinity in everyday Swedish culture [1]:
""Drinking alone should not be done. To drink alone is to be anti-social (by not wanting to share); it is commonly thought to be an indication of alcoholism. And alcoholism is shameful: to be labelled an alcoholic is a condemnation beyond words…""
- Also touching solo-drinking: "America Has a Drinking Problem" [2]:
"He and his onetime graduate student Kasey Creswell, a Carnegie Mellon professor who studies solitary drinking, have come to believe that one key to understanding drinking’s uneven effects may be the presence of other people. Having combed through decades’ worth of literature, Creswell reports that in the rare experiments that have compared social and solitary alcohol use, drinking with others tends to spark joy and even euphoria, while drinking alone elicits neither—if anything, solo drinkers get more depressed as they drink."
- Pandemic related, "When Drinking Alone Becomes A Problem" (2021) [3]
- From Kasey Creswell, "Drinking Together and Drinking Alone: A Social-Contextual Framework for Examining Risk for Alcohol Use Disorder " [4]
"The context in which drinking occurs is a critical but relatively understudied factor in alcohol use disorder (AUD) etiology. In this article, I offer a social-contextual framework for examining AUD risk by reviewing studies on the unique antecedents and deleterious consequences of social compared with solitary alcohol use in adolescents and young adults."
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[0] http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html [1] https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97802030... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america... [3] https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/psychology/news/2021/creswell-a... [4] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/096372142096940...
I wonder how much of this is "set and setting", something that is well known with other drugs. Maybe people tend toward depression when they drink alone because that's what they expect to happen?
Never been the case for me, even when I used to do it a bit too often.
Yeah, I have to wonder if people are seriously mixing up correlation and causation.
I think the danger (or lack thereof) of solo drinking is highly dependent on a person's reasons for drinking.
I like to get mildly drunk, alone, perhaps... an average of once per month? I've been doing this for about 20 years with no increase in frequency. The key is, I only do this when I'm happy. It's like a little celebration.
For whatever reason, I do not desire alcohol when I'm feeling down. The thought of alcohol's effects seems repugnant to me at those times.
If anything, the depression that comes with drinking for me is that I feel the intoxication and know I need to stop drinking, no matter how much I enjoyed the taste and would prefer to continue and not switch to water or something I enjoy the taste of less. It's part of why I've been so excited by the new innovations and improvements in non-alcoholic beer/hop water.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america...
http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking5.html
And there's some related HN discussion on the article here:
I enjoy drinking alone, exercising alone, traveling alone, sitting alone, working alone. I don't really think I'm that weird by objective standards, there are also things I like doing with people (I'm married and have a family), but as a sometimes introvert, I definitely value time alone, including relaxing with a beer.
Related, when I went to university, I lived in residence and i remember sitting by myself at meals and having people come and basically think they were doing me a favor talking to me, because only a loser would want to sit by himself. I found it both annoying (because I wanted to be alone) and condescending (because people see you alone and come talk to you like you must have no friends) - all that to say, society seems to look at you funny if you enjoy being by yourself, so I wouldn't read too much into sllo drinking being shunned specifically.
Drinking alone is more dangerous than drinking with friends.
If the topic of drinking alone comes up, there is always a warning or admonishment.
All of that is to say that I very much enjoy time to myself to listen to some music with my eyes closed or just to meditate or think, I'm quite happy for solitude, but not to do _things_ (see above).
I live on 40 acres alone. I'm snowed in here currently, without a care.
But I also own a bar, and bars make you lots and lots of friends. And I'm close with my family.
I don't drink alone, but just because I have no urge to drink when I'm not at a bar. I have a bottle that's been in my fridge a few years and isn't even open.
I curate my friends, preferring to have few, but who are reliable, I aim not to make friends with people I meet, and the ones I do have been the one's that have clicked.
My wife, on the contrary _loves_ doing things alone, she'll happily go see a film I want to see without me if I can't find the time (she's on maternity leave with our second child currently).
I love in London and it's very common to socialise in a pub here, so drinking alone does have somewhat of a stigma attached here.
That said, I'm not sure why anyone should be dissuaded from a scotch and a cigar once the children have gone to bed.
Alcohol destroys relationships for a lot of people. If they drank alone, it would have a much smaller effect on those relationships.
She genuinely couldn't believe I was doing that and thought I was weird for it. Obviously things worked out, but yeah.
I’ve even caught myself looking at someone by themselves and wondering with some level of suspicion “what/why are they out here” despite me doing the same myself.
Note that I was only reacting to the absolutes in the parent comment, not saying that I myself condemn people who go to the movies or do any "typical" group activity alone -- at the moment, I am also practicing the craft :)
In contrast, drinking alone is more of a solemn affair. When I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself.
George[0], is that you?
Hi! I'm an avid music and film lover who has been shunned for going to live music, or movie theaters, by myself. :)
I had a job where I was on the road often and although I loved being back home I did quite enjoy doing things alone.
> you can’t socialize during them
> And I don’t necessarily want to talk about them after
My wife doesn't like music nearly as much as I do, and she's particularly short, so standing in a crowd of people who are much taller than her isn't a lot of fun for her.
Ideally I would like to see the show with friends, but... it's still really fun. It's 9493% better than sitting at home, that's how I look at it.
But beer alone vs with with friends , I am not convinced former is more dangerous.
Plenty of people will give you the stink eye if you're by yourself in public. Some arse once loudly informed me I was a loser for being at the movies by myself. That happened once, but it was enough to make me realize that some people really can't fathom the idea of people having fun by themselves.
Drinking with friends is likely to be much more dangerous than drinking alone, unless you're an alcoholic, or your friends are abstaining. Peer pressure is real, and it goes away entirely when you're alone.
This is something public, though, while the parent only listed activities in private. Drinking alone in public is shunned even worse.
Not that I agree with that guy, of course. Enjoy your time at the movies alone, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
It is most definitely not shunned in American dive bars, nor anywhere in Central/Eastern Europe, nor in a hotel bar anywhere in the world.
Getting shit-faced by yourself in public is frowned upon because it’s annoying, but flying solo on a barstool is as common as can be, and nobody has any problem with it in many, many places.
This wasn't always the case (before the Sony Walkman introduction in 1979):
"The idea that a person could listen to music on his own was strange and novel. In Capturing Sound: How Technology Has Changed Music, Mark Katz mentions that in 1923, Orlo Williams compared someone listening to recorded music alone to “sniffing cocaine, emptying a bottle of whisky, or plaiting straws in his hair” (Katz, 20). This was an obvious exaggeration, but he emphasized the strangeness that society associated with solitary listening"
https://walkmanproject.wordpress.com/communal-vs-individual/
Over the years I've slowly come to a realization: These substances have various effects, but at the heart what they really do is make me less aware. Sometimes I guess it's a good thing. Alcohol makes me less aware of the part of me that is self-conscious in social situations, and of how others perceive me. Cannabis makes you feel more aware of experiences, but it proves to be an illusion. I guess they're really not that bad on the balance, but as I grow older and I have spent more and more time thinking about cultivating awareness - of the present moment; of my body and mind and senses; of things in life that are truly important, and which maybe even make me anxious to contemplate - I find that I simply don't enjoy intoxication as much anymore because there's something I enjoy more about awareness.
More and more I hear this nagging voice when intoxicated. It says: "I'm bored; I'm nervous; I'm scared; I'm sad; I'm worried; I'm self-conscious; I'm restless; Someday I will die. What I'm doing right now is trying to be less aware of these things. But maybe they aren't just to be ignored or avoided. Maybe they're an adaptive part of the human mind. Maybe there really is something worth being anxious about."
Having a drink alone is pretty harmless. Getting wicked drunk alone is depressing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/07/america...
I’ve never been bothered much by it in the past, but I think I’m quickly getting sick of it. It frankly gets boring, hanging out at bars all night aimlessly drinking. Yeah I talk people on occasion, but we’re normally a little a drunk for the conversation to be interesting or mean anything. Still I prefer if to aimlessly doing anything else, especially sitting at home.
I’ve been called out once or twice, by people curious about who I was or why I was always out alone. My relatively young age probably doesn’t help with attracting negative connotations. However, last week, I stopped by one of my regular bars, and the person next to me effectively called me out as a loser (with much nicer language, and beating around the bush). It ended up agitating me a bit because of how blatant it was. I know it, you know it, but does it really have to be announced out loud?
Perhaps they called you out because they're concerned about you.
Thinking that somebody else at a bar calling him a loser is looking out for his best interest is a little ridiculous
Seemed common in SF and other major metros I've lived in. You're not going to find many people doing it at hipster bars but it's definitely normal at neighborhood watering holes.
Second, it’s never cool to call someone a loser. Maybe they were self projecting. Find another bar.
I get a lot done in this state as I am purely churning out code rather than constantly second guessing myself, looking for a more optimal ways of doing it or refactoring the code I have written every few mins to improve class/package structure, variable names and so on. Obviously I would never merge to master after a session of intoxicated coding.
And this code looks better than you think on a Monday morning when sober.
Didn't work all the time though - sometimes I'd just be noticeably tired and stupid. And when I hit my 30s that tended to happen more often than not so I hung it up.
Now, with a good night's sleep, the very early morning hours (5am) is when I can get the flow state consistently.
I remember thinking at the time that I was onto something brilliant, only to excitedly pick it back up the next day and look at my code and realize it completely indecipherable. I don't even know what my idea was lol
I don’t see an issue with the occasional drink. The problem is people talking like the author does, don’t do the occasional drink.
Comments seem to be on the moralizing side of things, ouch. I'm sure we're all aware that being an alcoholic is bad, yes, thanks. And yes, I'm sure we can all strive to be paragons of abstinence and Real Zen. But while we're doing that, we might do well to remember not take things too seriously all the time.
But nearly everything in this article came across as a fairly odd way of rationalizing what might be "problem drinking" if not outright alcoholism.
I'm sure personal experiences will vary quite a bit here, but I've never found and greater truth about self identity there. I have found that sometimes it seems to assist in creative thoughts, ideas, etc, but certainly not rational thought that I think would standup in the post-hangover light of day.
About the most insightful thing I've found out about myself when drinking is "That was good whisky, but the last one was too much. Let's go drink a bunch of water, some preemptive ibuprofen, and get the coffee set to make a quick cup in the morning." It's not a vision quest.
If it's good enough for the happiest country in the world, it's good enough for me.
It's shunned in most cultures for a reason. You don't want to be the one wasted person in the polite social event, so it helps limiting how much you drink.
The article fail to mentions that alcohol is a VERY addictive substance. Not only you need more to reach the same state, but by enjoying it, you then actively look for it. I went from a few evenings a month, to a daily dose really faster than I expected. When you start to dismiss useful stuff (chores, social commitments) in favor of drinking, you are the definition of an addict. It's also very easy to deny it, but I know very few people who can hold a "dry-january" or refrain from drinking for several weeks.
I was advised to go to an aa meeting, and I went there just to prove myself that I had "no problem with alcohol". That was a huge slap in my face. Seeing others being in denial, can really help you see your own.
So while I understand (and enjoyed) the practice, I would really warn anyone wanting to try that to :
1. Challenge yourself regularly (did I successfully stop for 2 weeks ?)
2. Don't hesitate to reach out if you have the slightest doubt you can't stop.
AA[0] are wonderful people who don't judge, and going to a meeting helps tremendously if you have troubles stopping. I thought it only happenned to others for way to long.
[0] : https://www.aa.org/
Alcohol tastes good and feels fun but it's just not worth the tradeoffs imo. Maybe when I'm a much older man I'll enjoy it a bit more regularly
Being an alcoholic is a recipe for hurting people around you. It might not happen today or tomorrow, but sooner or later it will happen, whether you understand it or not. You might think you have a safe routine down, but you're likely oblivious to the human costs of that routine. As coping mechanisms go, it's an expensive and imprecise one. And it's definitely not cool.
Some ancient parts of the brain, such as those that control breathing, are resistant to disruption because when they cease to function, you die. Others, like sex drive or hunger, are more resistant because they needed to function in all of your ancestors or you wouldn't be here. Thus these ancient structures must be robust, and that robustness has evolved over millions of years.
Alcohol selectively disrupts the more recent and and less robust parts of my brain. It brings instincts won at great cost to my ancestors over generations, forward to help guide my actions.
a night by yourself on shrooms could change you more than 100 nights drinking alone, without the hangover or liver damage
i prefer to have a few cocktails/glasses of bourbon by myself while listening to some music and writing some code.
So neither supercedes the other.
Drinking too much and frequently will though have more health impacts for sure. Just don't do strong psychedelics all alone if you are unused ro them. That can end your life in one go (as it has for some).
I love drinking alone, with strict moderation. Once a week. Never to excess. Primarily, it’s to enjoy the drink itself, undistracted by the socialization normally inherent in imbibing. There are many fine beers at my local liquor store that I’d never find at a bar! There is perhaps an element of drifting off into a world of drunken introspection like the article describes, but such is far further down the path than I would go myself.
Yeah but it’s gets old when you realize it’s all just a meaningless as the socialization you do “ technical advancements that were meant to make us more connected”.
"No bartender to cut you off" - if that happens to you regularly and avoiding it is a big reason to drink alone? That sounds like problem drinking.
But I have heard from other people that they get unique perspectives on their lives while drunk so hey, maybe it's worth the liver damage for them?
I personally don't respect drunkards but I try my best to judge less. We're all screwed up one way or another and it takes a lifetime to repair damage that we're practically born with (various character traits).
We call cope how we can. To me risking life-time addiction and damaging a vital organ is not worth it but apparently to many it is.
Some of my deepest reflections on my self and my life have come about during those moments.
I do exercise constraint however, only doing this occasionally (1-2 p. month) and limit the amount to 2-3 glasses. So never truly let go like the article mentioned (I don't think that is actually needed, and will become harmful in the long run).
All seriousness, last couple years I changed my drinking habits. Grew up in UK so big drinking culture. After moving to somewhere in Asia with a big health focus I quit drinking for a couple months due to the training and it completely rewired me. Before was a habitual drinker, not large amounts but regularly. Managed to totally kick the urge or need to drink and now just occasionally have a beer or glass of wine. Haven't had a serious hangover in a long time.
Kinda like its far more socially acceptable to be addicted to heroin than be fat (courtesy of Vince Neil).
This actually isn't that surprising. "Socially acceptable" is partially defined in our ad-saturated world by the advertising industry. Corporate america can't get you to engage in onanistic consumption during work, because that is THEIR time.
That leaves your leisure time for moving their wares. Social activities as an adult are dominated by access to alcohol, because the alcohol companies spend billions each year in cultural propaganda inserting themselves as the organizing basis of adult social interaction.
This reminds me that in my lifetime the "key demographic" went from 18-30 to 18-40, and we have the rise of "40 is the new 30". I think a lot of that is how advertising has shifted our culture to intense consumption rather than "adult" stuff like raising kids.
I see alcohol as a "frenemy", of which I'm OK with so long as I remain leery of it. There is no "healthy" amount of alcohol to consume -- it's basically poison. Rather, I see it as "not ununhealthy" to consume small amounts, in strict moderation. For me, that's at most 2 Ol' Fashions on weekends (Fri,Sat,Sun) - each measured (1.5 oz). I want no daily relationship with it, and I also want no drinking buddies (where drinking is a purpose/sub-purpose being together). I don't want to talk about booze, or times spent drinking. Outside of that, my strict rule is: alcohol is never allowed for stress relief, only for celebration.
I think this view and rule set make me a pretty boring, weird drinking companion for others, anyway, so it's likely best for all. I grew up with alcoholism destroying lives all around me, which I guess led me to distrust it. I regard it as healthy distrust.
No, except for alcoholics, drinking is not just about getting loaded.
And for inner journeys, there are way better drugs avaiable, or - how boring, paths without any drugs at all.
Drinking alone might be fun but, seems like if you let it go on long enough you won't have an alternative to being alone.
Can anyone relate to this or am I an alien?
I would just like to emplore such people to seek an alternative perspective that their experience might be drastically different if they did not choose the situation to start with.
Chosing to drink alone and not having someone to drink with are different things. If you are in the latter camp, don't try to normalize or enjoy the situation. Find a drinking buddy or figure out how to meet and make such friends.
Personally, I've had to move cities about every 6 months for the last 3 years while working from home. It's hard enough to make friends as an adult, let alone while constantly moving.
Otherwise yes, drinking alone, just like eating alone can be wildly enjoyable.
I’d also warmly recommend to people who can do it to get mildly drunk once in a while (every year or two?). Do it with a trusting partner who stays clear, and check where’s the line and how it feels when you come close and then past it.
This is precisely what disturbed me. Enjoying a book, videogame, binge watching etc. while enjoying 1-2 drinks sipping a nice whiskey or beer, that's fine. (for men more than 2-3/day and more than 14/week total is classed as problem drinking. And the 2-3/14 is not a recommendation, it's more an absolute max)
Occasionally exceeding this daily mark? Probably no big deal. (For values of occasionally that have months in between them and never include negative consequence as a result beyond "yep, gonna need some ibuprofen and a coffee")
If you exceed 14 in a week even occasionally though, that seems a bit more problematic. Any addiction can be perniciously subtle, slowly creeping up where each tiny increment seems like no big deal. I'm guessing that a lot of people feel they can stop any time because along that incremental process, at some point they could have stopped, but when they reached beyond that point there was no sign marking the road to let them know it.
Rather, I see people who normalize alcohol consumption on a pretty regular scale (2-3 times per week, each day per week, each weekend etc.) and of those, quite a few have a chance to increase their consumption to full on alcoholism IF there isn't some other reasonable constraint. Only drinking socially is such a constraint.
I have seen too many people who say: "I am fine to have a shot of this, or a glas of that" when in reality they drink a lot more than that.
Edit: That being said, the Hunter S. Thompson full on alcoholism lifestyle is a valid choice. Not everyone needs to be healthy and have a long, productive life or whatever. Some sort of nihilistic, self-destructive Zen philosophy can also be a net positive for the world, especially in the arts. I just personally think it's a choice that leads to a painful, sad and miserable end. The problem is - who really chooses this conciously? As long the author uses flowery language instead of just saying it's alcoholism as a lifestyle, I think something is amiss.
“I drink alone, yeah
With nobody else
Yeah, you know when I drink alone
I prefer to be by myself”Shame as I'd be still drinking today if my body could cope with it. For sure. But my liver has had more than a lifetime filter through it.
That said, I think the piece overestimates the benefits of alcohol and underestimates the benefits of solitude.
Needless to say, because of COVID I haven't had a drink since 2019.
put on a good record, pour some choice tequila, and grind away. :)
either that or listening to audiobooks/podcasts. i sit down by my balcony, and i drink while enjoying the view, the book and the taste of the whiskey (currently, glenfiddich 15).
my go-to is tequila ocho's añejo. it's aged in whiskey barrels so perhaps you may enjoy it.
As I've said, it isn't surprising that it finds its audience, but this gets me thinking: if there was a similar poetic piece talking about "the Zen of taking heroin alone", would people be more inclined to see it as a satire or would they be more inclined to find some deep wisdom in it precisely because it's a bit more unusual and less romanticized than alcohol? Would it gather more upvotes?
And, well, I won't be seriously discussing the topic (it seems a bit silly to me), but since I've made the comparison: yes, I do totally think these are more or less equivalent things.
I prefer to drink where it's safe and I can't embarrass myself -- in the comfort of my own home
But you can totally do that sober - and I mean no mind-altering substances whatsoever.
If you drink, don't let it control you.
Alcohol is a very misunderstood substance. Its original use in many cultures was limited to the priesthood, to enliven consciousness by restricting the activities of the conscious mind, so that the superconscious knowledge within the individual can flow freely, uninhibited by daily thought and concerns. In Japan, sake, a rice wine, is considered the potion of the poets and is served in Buddhist and Shinto monasteries to enhance the spiritual nature and diminish worldly attachments. The drinking of sake goes along with certain other practices of controlling the mind, based on a well-understood philosophy. In other cultures—Aztec, Mayan, Hindu, Christian and Jewish—wine is considered a holy sacrament. ¶Beer is a lesser potion, a drink for the common man, and does not fall into this category. Both beer and wine are produced from natural ingredients and through natural fermentation processes, whereas hard liquors are distilled. Another important difference is the concentration of alcohol. In beer the alcohol content is from 3 to 8 percent, and in wine from 9 to 18 percent, compared to hard liquors which are from 25 to nearly 100 percent. The latter our scriptures admonish us to not imbibe. ¶Man’s religious traditions provide different answers to the consumption of alcohol. The Muslim faith considers it the mother of all evils, the most basic of human sins. The Jews, Christians and others consider it acceptable in moderation, and, in fact, provide wine as sacraments in their places of worship. In Asian societies, propaganda against alcohol is severe, primarily directed toward hard liquors, meaning those of high alcohol content, which tend to quickly craze the mind, punish the body and let loose the lower emotions. These include distilled home brews, such as arrack, bathtub gin, homemade rum and vodka. ¶In Hinduism there are traditions that are strictly abstemious, and there are traditions that are open to the use of alcohol. Especially the Śaivas and Śāktas are more lenient in this matter and have no objection to the moderate, wise use of alcohol. In North India, for example, it is traditional in certain orders for Śaiva sannyāsins to drink alcohol. This is the tradition that our particular paramparā has adopted and it is the custom that we follow today. If you are in a tradition which has a heritage of complete abstention, then you should follow it. If you are in a tradition which does not look down on drinking wines or beers, then you should feel free to follow that tradition. ¶Hindus of the Jaffna community explain that hard liquor, known as kal in Tamil, are the intoxicants prohibited in the Tirukural and Tirumantiram and which are to be totally abstained from, and that beer and wine, including honey wine, are referred to in the Vedas and āyurveda texts as beneficial for spiritual and religious life under the restraint of mitāhāra. § Sunday LESSON 84 Alcohol in Śaiva Tradition
The time periods allotted for drinking wine and beer should be during a meal (lunch or dinner), or to relax after the day’s dharmic duties are fulfilled. Obviously, one should not drink during the work day, in the office, during pūjā or in the early morning hours. ¶Of course, this hardly need be said, but drinking and driving don’t mix. This extends also to other potentially dangerous activities. One would never drink while on the job, especially using industrial equipment, such as saws and drills, as alcohol slows down the reactions of the physical body and the conscious mind. While enjoying a glass or two of wine, one should be in good company. Drinking should bring up the higher nature, of creativity, good ideas, conversation, philosophy, intuitive solutions to the problems of the world, healthy encounters of all kinds. One should not drink when depressed, troubled or with a group that enters into confrontation, argument, contention and criticism, personal, mental and emotional abuse. Therefore, we emphasize good company, good conversation, creativity, relaxation, toward the advancement of humanity and of spirituality. That is what these two substances, wine and beer, have been created on Earth by Lord Śiva Himself to produce. Of course, imbibing even wine and beer falls under the restraint of mitāhāra. To overindulge would be unacceptable.
Doing unhinged introspection with the help of booze or other drugs is frowned upon as you you will realise that are not living for others but yourself on our shared pale blue dot in your personal short glimpse of experienced history and reality.
It's great if that is their life's purpose but fortunately not everyone is the same.