FSB arrests REvil ransomware gang members
therecord.media
therecord.media
If this was Russia, then they would probably use the REvil "arrests" as a proof that they don't engage in Cyberwarfare, but rather help the world become a better place by cleaning up the Cyberspace.
Edit: TBH, that Twitter video in the other comment looks pretty serious.
[0] https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-says-massive-cyber-attack...
[1] https://therecord.media/hackers-deface-ukrainian-government-...
This is how Russian propaganda works. Not just Russian, but authoritarian propaganda in general. It doesn't have to be believable.
The comparison to the NSA isn't that valid, since it is well known that the NSA does this, but I don't think that there would be many persons who would know a single thing the FSB has done in Cyberspace, unlike them being famous for poisoning and throwing people out of windows.
>Authorities said they seized more than 426 million rubles, $600,000, and €500,000 in cash, along with cryptocurrency wallets, computers, and 20 expensive cars.
FYI, the Russian-language discussions are about whether the whole thing was staged, or only part of it. In other words, they could have actual contacts with protection, and share the money, or they could be observed silently, and maybe controlled through private talks with the leadership. So people try to guess whether members were prepared for the show arrest, or weren't.
Mafia (legal or illegal) does not care about blockchains and exploits, mafia knows that money don't appear out of thin air. When there's a need to launder the money to have those piles of cash, the word of mouth reaches the relevant people. It's not about secret services or international cyber-mumbo-jumbo, it's first and foremost about the money.(Whoop-whoop, capitalism and free market!)
Also, those kinds of relations don't go unnoticed. When there's a need to launder the money to have that expensive real estate in a Western country, the word of mouth reaches the relevant people. The dossier on hackers was not an offer, it was an ultimatum. “Either deal with them, or we are leaking the data on top government officials who benefit from hacking, and making lots of fuss and property seizures”. As they probably met with the same people whose data was supposed to be leaked, it had an effect.
So there is very little “justice” going on, just the same old “the strong reigns over the weak”. How can other commenters rush to discuss cardboard games of “international politics” and to play with hand dolls of “US”, “Russia”, and “China” with such a childlike joy is a mystery to me. These things exist in media propaganda universe, they are not real.
Hoards of cash in drawers and bags?
Open laptops with logged in crypto accounts?
Maybe they only showed the few dummies on the team that didn't follow protocol, but all it takes is one idiot to ruin the whole "teamwork" vibe...
They believed that as long as they did not target Russia (or CIS countries), that the Russians would not crack down.
What stops most hackers from orchestrating massive attacks, is the threat of arrest and prison.
For those most highly skilled IT folks, the income difference between a legitimate cybersecurity job and ransomeware engineer, is not enough to justify the risk.
You’re saying this expectation doesn’t match reality?
My guess is:
- No one is extradited.
- Sentences, if any, are minimal.
- Whatever data collected by these guys is now in the hands of RU intelligence.
- The smarter/competent ones are recruited.
The raids are also interesting because you don't see the same flamboyance we saw from eastern European carders after their raids. Wheres the pet tiger? And the foreign sports cars? I'm curious if perhaps this was a raid on the lower level personnel.
Or maybe this was completely staged and none of these people are associated with REvil at all.
The article mentions:
"Authorities said they seized more than 426 million rubles, $600,000, and €500,000 in cash, along with cryptocurrency wallets, computers, and 20 expensive cars."
I doubt they were all lower-level personnel
yeah not in Russia. They don't go easy on people, even if its for "show". This people are f**.
I think quite the contrary, if it's a show trial, they'll get maximum sentences. Giving them minimal sentences would make the whole thing pointless.
REevil arrest is just a token of good will, probably in exchange for something.
You seize their assets. You seize their talent and force them to work for the FSB. ...and you get to pretend to the world that you crack down on international hackers.
It's only upside for Russia.
Sure, the right hand does not talk to the left hand most of times and there's a "separation of concerns", still, there might be something to it.
Anyway, this is an important step in fighting cybercrime.
From here, Russia (Putin) can either prosecute or release the members depending on how the talks go.
I think Putin and Biden may have come to an agreement similar to the one reached between JFK and Kruschev to end the Cuban Missile Crisis. You withdraw your missiles from Cuba now, and we'll withdraw missiles from Turkey - but in 6 months' time, so we don't lose face. So I suspect these arrests are a confidence-building measure.
I predict that tensions will ease visibly in about 6 months.
That’s a nice thing to say. Respect for your adversary, trolling or mistranslation?
"""
Competent authorities are executive authorities endowed with jurisdiction and power to perform any specific tasks (“competence” here means “the right to make decisions”).
"""
[1] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B5...
It will be interesting to see how the (alledgedly mostly russian) ransomware industry fares after this new development.
"allowed"? To a large extend Russian behavior scares the EU away.
I'm only commenting on why what's happening is happening, not whether it "should" be happening or not. Why states act the way they do is something you can study independent of what you want them to be doing. I explained in my previous comments why Russia is behaving the way they are and if you want to start to get an actual handle on that, check out what Mearsheimer and Caspian Report are saying. I won't be typing out the entire history and argument here.
> No one invaded these countries and forced them to be part of NATO
However, this part isn't true in anything but a pedantic sense. The US spends billions on propaganda, intelligence operations, NGOs, sanctions, capital financing and many other means to sway opinion and eliminate opposition to force themselves on other states as the preferable options. Violence is not the only mode of coercion. Again, this isn't some kind of moral judgement: they all do it, but some are more successful than others. To ignore this is just as naive as the comment I was responding to.
("oh look, this really poor person rumored to be a criminal suddenly got very very rich and is throwing their money around" is a great way to attract LE attention)
> charged with committing crimes under Part 2 of Art. 187 ‘Illegal circulation of means of payment’
Oof. After that call Putin must've forgot to tell the FSB to not lift a finger for a while, because you just know his American colleagues will jump at the chance to credit this to themselves.
Predictably, it's happening.
Can't wait for them to arrest Snowden next.
[1] https://www.courthousenews.com/russia-us-talks-end-with-impa...
And regarding extradition- if I’m in their shoes I will plead to be extradited to the US.
The higher one is in politburo the deeper one’s grave is.
Where are you from? No one wants to be extradited to the US, not sure why these Russian people would be any different. Just look what happened to Manning. If you want to aim for a fair trial, you don't want to be extradited to the US.
This needs to be understood through the Ukraine/NATO crisis lens.
Carrot and stick.
Show that you can act both in a "good" or "bad" way.
I'm not for a moment trying to defend Russian bellicosity in Georgia, Ukraine and Crimea. I'm just noting that it's understandable, given repeated Western violations of promises and treaties. Treaties signed by the USA, in particular, might as well be used toilet-paper (ask Iran).
This isn’t fully true. It’s been alleged. But Gorbachev has publicly admitted he has no memory of it. There were no agreements signed nor even public statements made backing it up. Which is strange since the U.S. and USSR did sign a memorandum on Germany’s reunification, in the context of which this supposed agreement was made.
All of which is irrelevant given Russia signed the Budapest memorandum in 1994, an actual treaty, not some secret handshake hocus pocus, which Putin is presently violating. So it’s weird for it to be waiving the flag of broken agreements.
No. It’s supposed to “enforce” treaties signed under its auspices, but even that requires SC approval, which any member can veto.
But in general, I think the assumption is that parties enter into international treaties because both parties reckon the agreement to be a "win". I'm not aware of anyone ever trying to enforce a mutual-defence treaty - if you violate one of those, I think people just take it that the treaty is over.
There's no "international law", as such; there's just a web of agreements.
taken from https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16117-document-06-record-...
This was a discussion in prelude to the signing of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany [1]. Baker's is a statement of understanding the "Soviet Union [and] other European countries'" position, not an agreement--not even the hint of one. None of it made it into the final Treaty. Lots of ideas were mooted and abandoned in that transcript; it's revisionist to fixate on that one. (As, again, Gorbachev himself publicly admitted.)
Also, immediately following that statement, Baker says that he does not "have the Germans’ agreement to this approach," and that what he has relayed is "an account of this approach," holding that "maybe something much better can be created." Two men discussing ideas in pursuit of an agreement, which was drafted days and signed months thereafter.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement...
Thanks for clarifying.
The idea was discussed. Nobody disputes that. Gorbachev disputes there was agreement. A position the transcript supports.
It’s like if two people are negotiating a price; one says 5, the other acknowledges hearing five and proposes 3, and then they trade at 4. Twenty years later, one of their daughters calls foul because the buyer acknowledged hearing 5 but only paid 4. That is the imbecilic position this argument takes.
No memory of an agreement, not of a discussion. Putin claims agreement. That is false.
Is this what you're talking about? https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/05/myths-and-misconception...
> However, Gorbachev neither asked for nor was given any formal guarantees that there would be no further expansion of NATO beyond the territory of a united Germany.34 The issue was not even under discussion at NATO at the time, since the Warsaw Pact and the USSR were both still in existence. Even if the Warsaw Pact’s days were clearly numbered, there was no expectation in Western capitals in the autumn of 1990 that the USSR would collapse a year later.
Compare with https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/russia...
> As early as December 1991, Russian President Boris Yeltsin wrote to NATO leaders saying that his country would join the Alliance some time in the future. Yeltsin’s successor Vladimir Putin, hinted during his first presidential term that Russia could become a full fledged member of the Atlantic Alliance.
If Russia wants less NATO troops close to their borders then they should consider not invading their neighbours.
> And it's worth noting that the Russian troops are all still in Russia (apart from the troops in Crimea, and the surrogates in eastern Ukraine).
To be clear, more than a few Russian soldiers have been captured in eastern Ukraine, it's not just surrogates fighting.
> I'm not for a moment trying to defend Russian bellicosity in Georgia, Ukraine and Crimea. I'm just noting that it's understandable, given repeated Western violations of promises and treaties.
I really don't see how military actions in those places is "understandable," in the context of "Western violations". Annexing Crimea did nothing to improve Russia's security against NATO. If anything it hurt Russia's place in the international community and hardened NATO against it. Keep in mind that they didn't annex Crimea because Ukraine was thinking of joining NATO, it's because they were thinking of joining the EU. This isn't about security concerns, this is about maintaining regional hegemony over Eastern Europe.
Really? Russia's naval base at Sevastopol is in the Crimea. That's a very large naval base, and provides their only naval access to the Mediterranean. In order to station an old carrier off the shore of Syria, they had to sail it from the Baltic, through the English Channel, round through the Straits of Gibraltar. That must have been pretty humiliating.
It would have been smart for Ukraine to negotiate something with Russia giving them the right to continue using that naval base.
Should Denmark also invade Crimea so that it has access to the Mediterranean?
What's Denmark got to do with anything? Denmark has zero interests in the Crimea.
This is incorrect on several levels. For starters there's the route you mentioned from the Atlantic through the Straits of Gibraltar. Maybe you discount that because it goes through NATO-controlled waters, but to get from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean you have to go through the Bosphorus, which is controlled by Turkey, also a NATO member. Second, Russia has several other naval bases on the Black Sea. The port of Novorossiysk, for example, is the largest port in the entire Black Sea, and one of the largest ports in all of Russia, and is not in Crimea.
> It would have been smart for Ukraine to negotiate something with Russia giving them the right to continue using that naval base.
They did in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact . Ukraine gave Russia a lease on the facility until 2047 in exchange for a discounted contract on natural gas. Russia unilaterally left the treaty after the annexation of Crimea 4 years later. As far as I can tell, the Russian Black Sea fleet has always had access to a naval base in Sevastopol, and at no point was this access threatened.
> In order to station an old carrier off the shore of Syria, they had to sail it from the Baltic, through the English Channel, round through the Straits of Gibraltar. That must have been pretty humiliating.
Their carrier is deployed with the northern fleet, and while it was built in Ukraine during the Soviet area it doesn't seem to have actually ever performed operations in the Black Sea, though it certainly could be moved there. I also don't see what about that is "humiliating".
Thanks - I am now better-informed.
> I also don't see what about that is "humiliating"
The ship's passage through the English Channel was constantly monitored by UK military jets, as well as by news reporters, who mocked the condition of that decrepit carrier. I don't know if Russian leadership actually felt humiliated, but I'd have been humiliated had it been me (I wouldn't have embarked on the voyage in the first place, unless I had a shiny new ship).
ayyy, the gymnastics
> I'm not defending...
nah, you're excusing
You can put it that way, if you like ad-hominem attacks based on forged "quotes". I'm actually pretty angry with Russian military incursions into their neighbours, and I'm glad they withdrew quickly from Kazakhstan.
But I think NATO should have disbanded when the Warsaw Pact disbanded. It has no business operating in e.g. the Middle East. The West has acted provocatively, and it's no surprise if Russia is provoked.
That's my naive read, anyway.
No idea what Rus might be.
Vehicle codes are only slightly less clear than the ISO codes, but they're used in a surprising number of places, like international sports.
Edit: Oh wait, I'm mis-speaking. Sports tend to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-3, which includes RUS
So yeah, I guess I don't feel bad.
Russia infrastructure is old and the country is very corrupt. Wouldn't be surprised there was a "proof of concept" to show they mean business.
The US is the world's largest economy, loaded with ~$165 trillion in household assets, having persistent supply chain problems, running at 50 year highs on inflation, and it's still wildly exposed to cyber attacks despite decades of warning shots across its bow. It's exposed to almost a comically idiotic degree.
Russia can cause a lot of disruption and havoc with the US economy if it wants to. The US has three potent recourses at that point: try to unplug Russia as it pertains to the global Internet (not very effective other than to further isolation); drive chaos and civil war on its borders and attempt to flood terrorism into Russia (eg from Kazakhstan etc.), which is a dangerous proxy kinetic action toward Russia (they can swing back); pull Russia from SWIFT (they're slightly prepared for that, however it would still hurt a lot regardless) and try to more seriously isolate them globally economically (it'll drive Russia further into China's arms, which may be a mistake at this juncture; it might be better if Russia is able to independently fend off China's inevitable attempts to turn Russia into its subservient over time).
None of those are great options, although dramatically increasing global economic isolation is probably the best option.
Russia is a weak nation economically and structurally. As an entity, Russia shouldn't exist and can only be held together through a never-ending reign of authoritarian / totalitarian iron fist dictator types; it requires a constant application of severe force upon the population (eg stripping them of all media, protest and speech rights) to hold it all together, otherwise Russia would explode into numerous separate countries very rapidly. Why does that matter? It matters because we're going to keep getting an endless line of Putins, it's the only type that can operate Russia as it's presently constructed. Putin knows exactly what it takes to hold Russia together, it's the naive West that has been surprised by what he has done / what he became (golly gee, the people of Russia want freeeeedom too, they're just like us, dur dur dur - aka the early 1990s naive worldview; Russia can only be one of two things: some slight variation of what it is presently, which requires a Putin, or it has to explode into pieces).
When you're a weak nation with some potent systems you can attack a very rich superpower with, it's a huge problem for the rich superpower. It's the classic line about how if you owe someone ~$1,000, you have a problem; and if you owe someone $1 billion, they have a problem (ignoring for a moment whether it's very accurate, you get the point). If you're facing off with North Korea, trading cities in a nuclear exchange with them is a massive losing contest for the US, trading NYC for Pyongyang is not an even exchange; trading Los Angeles for Hamhung is not an even exchange; North Korea has an epic scale advantage in such a terrible exchange. Russia has a similar advantage in how it can persistently stab the US with economically damaging cyber attacks; the US will struggle greatly to find an even exchange in hitting back, because Russia is economically feeble and it's difficult to upset the Putin cart with targeted social chaos attacks (like trying to disrupt various infrastructure or supply chains for Russia to cause political problems for Putin; they'll just oppress or murder the domestic population as needed to maintain control).
I do not downvote any posts on principle but statements like the one above belong to lunatics in my opinion.
We don’t want conflict in Europe. But we’re capable of sustaining it.
We won’t go to war over Ukraine, but we’ll economically cripple Russia, at great pain to ourselves and our allies, and line its borders with strike weapons if that happens. Because if Russia can break the agreements it signed as recently as 1994 it’s not unfeasible that it goes for Finland or even the Baltics next.
Putin isn’t bluffing. But he’s more likely to die in power if Russia doesn’t attempt a war.
And, apparently, there are fellow European citizens who still buy this charade. At least if they're from Poland or something similar easterny, it's their age old beefs with Russia/USSR that are a factor (though it's funny to see them believe Germany has their best interests at heart). But who can say why western european countries want to be the US lapdogs...
A few quick points.
The US has a lot to lose here. This area is in russia's back yard, not ours. If we fight on the ground (without speaking the local language - Russian) we are back into our afghan / syria stuff.
Russia has nuclear weapons. If you say you can blow russia away think again. And again, the US has a LOT to loose, I suspect the russian populace would be able to deal with casualities etc better than the US.
When we say we are going to cut them off financially, realize that a huge amount of energy flows from Russia to Europe. And especially if they go after Ukraine then, they would have enormous control over EU energy markets. Again, not saying EU couldn't handle it, but do they have the stomach for this?
Germany BTW has shut DOWN a lot of their zero carbon nuclear power (to be "green") so they are now more dependent then ever on natural gas.
Does President Biden have the popularity and support of his caucus to start a war? Bernie Sanders is on board with this?
The US did this huffing already with Crimea.
They did this with Afghanistan where we were assured repeatedly that NO evacuation was underway while we literally watched an evacuation.
The confusing thing to me in all this is, where is Europe? France always want to be a bigger player internationally - this is a chance for the EU to demonstrate some soft or hard power if they wanted.
If there was something going on with mexico in our backyard, I can't even imagine us not getting involved (or cuba - we'd def push back on Russia putting stuff there).
France is always banging on about how Europe should be more respected / have a stronger defense story.
Russia has a much much BIGGER trade relationship with Europe. Where is the EU? They literally are not even in the meetings, it's kind of comical.
So the countries that are a) close, b) have economic relationships that matter etc are silent and the US administration is strutting around saying they are going to put a gun to Russia's head or whatever.
The parallel would be if Russia was going to put a missile system in Cuba, and the US just sat around, and Turkey or some country thousands of miles away started negotiating over it with Russia. Hell no - the US would be front and center in that negotiation
And BTW - this happened - the Cuban missile crisis. And the US WAS front and center there.
Russia seems to have gotten clean away with Crimea. Are there similar underlying divisions in Ukraine? Ie, a russian speaking portion and a more western half? That is exactly the type of thing they are good at exploiting, and the on the ground support for the US in part of the country may not be robust. That's a bad mix for foreign policy intervention.
I'm really hoping Biden has is head screwed on straight for this one.
I doubt Europe was out of the loop, but nothing more is clear.
They could be a bystander only informed of things (which brings up your questions).
They could be letting/making the US lead for their own reasons. The following come to mind: they don't want to be seen as in charge - the US is drawing any negative attention. They can't agree on leaders and the US is better than "the other country". They want to make the US look good for reasons.
Russia could be giving all credit to the US for various reasons.
I have no idea what the truth is. It might be one of the above, it might not (my guess).
2022 US? Yeah, the President's geriatrician is right on it...
> “As a result FSB and Min of Internal Affairs effotts, REvil ceased to exist, their infrastructure was neutralized,” per RIA
> An “informed source” told Interfax that Russia won’t extradite detained members of REvil with Russian passports to the US. Source didn’t specify whether all the detained hackers are Russians.
Mary Ilyushina · @maryilyushina · 6:57 AM · Jan 14, 2022
https://twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1481973752292417543
lol. don't make them out to be geniuses. REvil was basically a successful startup. not even a unicorn AND it's going to land them in prison for some amount of time.
Putin showed Biden that's he's acting in good faith. No one at that level cares what happens to a bunch of hackers
A raid like this would be a really stupid way to "acqui-hire" some hackers. My understanding is a lot of these hackers already work with the FSB, etc. Using outside people helps the FSB by giving them a level of deniability.