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Comment by reikonomusha | Hacker News Reader

I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whoever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire. (I hope I'm wrong, because I do feel there needs to be a moral reckoning about how we technologists—whatever the specific discipline—are contributing to the world, and whether it's truly for the better.)

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> I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whomever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire

Trust me - among people who can get those jobs - they are getting less views. Of the people I know in SV - and I know a few - all have very unfavorable views of Amazon and working there. People only take it as a stepping stone or last resort. The top experienced candidates who are able to get offers from most companies are not going to Amazon these days. I haven't seen any of the people I know who are good engineers go to Amazon. And - I mean - I am with them. I am at a place that is known to work their engineers to death as well and I'm getting too much shit thrown down at me. But I'm here because I needed this as a stepping stone for rep before I can find a better place that'll let me coast as a staff eng instead of churning through one hellish startup one after another.

This might be accurate but it’s…bleak? I genuinely hope you do get what you’re looking for.

Curious where youre at? Hope it works out for you, and it sounds like you already know this, but it all comes down to leetcode. So dont kill yourself learning "programming", companies only want leetcode medium perfection. Slack at the job, do not slack on the algos

I think amazon is absolutely facing pressure from word getting out about working conditions. They raised their pay band for a middle level engineer 100k.

That's a great point and corroborates other stories I've heard about increasing mid-level pay. It does continue to support the thesis that is (in simplified form) "everybody has a number".

When?

A few months ago

You'd think it would be cheaper for them to just improve working conditions.

So much of "working conditions" are habits and culture. Changing those is a lot harder than installing new lighting or safety guards. Worth it? yes, but there is lag time.

It’d also likely require change from the top down - which is never happening. They’d rather pay people more than change their own behavior.

But they don't want to. The working conditions that everyone rags on about there are a feature for them, not a bug.

I don't know about FB, but I think the fact that Amazon's sourcers are shotgun shelling every warm body with a modicum of engineering experience says something about how difficult their hiring is.

Anecdotally, I get offers to come interview for roles in different countries for Amazon, Facebook etc, like in sure most of us do.

I politely say no every time not giving any reason other than I don't want to relocate for the job, but the reality is I don't want to either work at that company due to the horrible things they are doing or the horrible reputation of the working environment.

I've asked other engineers if they have similar requests and they do and the reject for the same reasons I do.

Same here. I don't even bother reading the Amazon or Facebook recruiting emails anymore. It's not literally true that "you couldn't pay me enough to work there" (you totally could) -- but they're not offering nearly enough to overcome my aversion.

FB definitely has been struggling, see https://www.protocol.com/workplace/facebook-docs-hiring-recr... with leaked internal docs describing it.

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