Ask HN: Am I Crazy/ Unreasonable?

> Am i crazy for being this upset and hurt?

Your hypersensitivity isn’t normal, but you already know that. Given you are now dealing with something very painful to you and you aren’t getting anywhere, it’s not crazy that you’re upset and hurt.

> Even ignoring my hypersensitivity i would have expected that given my role in the company my feedback to a redesign would be heard and that at least something i hate would be avoided

From everything you’ve described, I’d be absolutely shocked if that happened.

> How would you react in this situation?

Hard to say. If I was in exactly your situation then I’d be you and do what you’re doing. If I was more like me and faced the issues you face, I’m not sure what I’d do. You’re going to have a hard time at most jobs where you have no control over the colors of most software you look at. Maybe use accessibility settings on your monitor to do something like black and white or muted colors? Maybe I’d found a company or be a contractor for more control. If it was something different but with the same results (I hate something then getting treated the way you described) I’d definitely walk. I can’t stand the dynamic you’re talking about.

Should we really be advocating the OP quit their job in a company they are obviously happy with in general and probably have significant financial stake attached to before maybe suggesting a custom style sheet

I suggested adjusting it at the system level, so I hope it's clear that I think adapting is a good strategy. I'm not sure a custom style sheet solves the problem since they "live and breathe" the product. That's going to involve mockups, assets, etc.

I don't think it's obvious they're happy with the job at all. They've said nothing positive about their cofounders. Really the only positive thing at all is that this current product "seems like it will take off" which isn't exactly a slam dunk. It seems like a pretty bad experience to think you're totally responsible for a product and have a redesign done behind your back.

From their perspective you're lacking three things: 1) credibility, 2) leverage, and 3) data.

Credibility: you're a technical founder, not a designer. Why would they listen to you?

Leverage: you do not have decision-making power on this point. The other people do not feel their position is at all threatened by your disagreement with their choice, otherwise they would not be handling this situation as they are.

Data: there's no data to support your belief; it's entirely subjective. This isn't like a technical decision where you can discuss tradeoffs like performance metrics. You could try to get data by getting user feedback, but given (1) and (2) I don't think it'd be worth it.

I think your best option right now is to realize your value to the company is not on the design side. If that's something you want to be involved in, then you need to build that credibility gradually (and be able to provide better feedback than simply "it disgusts me").

> there's no data to support your belief

What belief? OP just hates looking at the colors. They've been very clear about that.

It might seem harsh and I would not go so far as to say crazy, but you have too much invested in the colors and shapes stuff.

I know you hate them, probably as much as I hated working for an ad tech company, maybe more, but design is not your forte and if the remaining stakeholders trust the design you need to accept that,

You have done your diligence and voiced your concerns and if you can't accept their decision you should step away while retaining as much of your equity as possible.

From an alternate perspective, what would your response be if the head of HR told you that you can't use python because they hate snakes? I'm assuming you would reject that (as would I) even if the head of HR had a 10% stake. It is not a decision they have been hired to make. Just like apparently colors and shapes are not the decisions you were hired to make.

How would I react?

I would tell them their pea soup greens, browns and their "organic splotches" remind me of explosive diarrhea and I'm probably not the only one. Then I would get to coding the best damn SAAS I could. When user stories/feedback comes in that vindicate me I will sit with a smug look on my face in the senior staff meetings knowing everyone remembers I was right :-P

> design is not your forte and if the remaining stakeholders trust the design

> When user stories/feedback comes in that vindicate me

You seemed to have missed the issue at hand. OP doesn't think the design is bad for the business. They just don't want to look at it. That's not a matter of trust or vindication.

Tailwind is awesome.

Our CTO is crazy about green, like it's everywhere in our SaaS app.

I setup some env vars so I can swap out some colors to something more palette-able for me when the env is local.

This could be an option for you in local dev and even staging.

I doubt many co-workers are going to understand your aversion.

Yes, you absolutely are. They are colors.

It's okay to disagree, but once the decision is made, you move on. You throwing a public fit is unbecoming of a CTO and would shake any confidence I had in you as a leader.

If everyone else is in agreement, and you're the only dissenter, you are the problem, not them.

Drop the issue and move on. If it's really as bad as you think, it can be changed later. Otherwise just accept that you're wrong.

"Public Fit" was maybe bad wording, of course my dev team has no idea this is even happening and i did not waste a minute of their time on this topic. Public only in the sense of "in front of everyone involved in the redesign"

Is everyone else really in agreement over this color scheme/redesign? I can't fully empathize but I can see how a truly hideous color (subjective of course) could bother me quite a bit.

Other post already mentioned this but is there some leeway here? (e.g. if it's bright pink can you work with the folks involved in this process to make it slightly more subdued, for instance). And what is the hex code(s)? I'd imagine the color scheme would have to be extremely hideous for it to be this trigger to me, personally.

i don't know if they are in agreement on the colors but they are in agreement that they don't see an issue and don't want to invest even a second dealing with it.

there seems to be no leeway i just asked for minimal changes as a compromise, also the hex codes are here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29916162

Why you're in trouble: You worked harder than them - and it sounds like you didn't get compensated enough for the hard work. They broke your trust. Since you work way harder than them (for free), they think you're desperate and have no respect for you.

This is a power play and they've been calling your bluff for the last six months. You keep asking for their permission and they have no respect for you.

So, the question is - what leverage do you have? Can you make it more painful for them than for you?

I feel happy with my compensation, i get enough money (so not for free) and my shares are not a lot but ok with me. I love the product (and the tech team by the way) and being able to work on a product i love is really what i want. But for this reason i have indeed zero leverage because they know i would never actually walk away from it. I could easily make it painful for them but not without hurting the company more than already and that would cross the line to putting the future in danger which would help no one. They indeed have no respect for me but as long as i had control over the product this did not bother me.

Well, you've reasoned yourself into a hole. They crossed whatever line you're not willing to cross a long time ago. They neither respect you nor fear you. You will not earn either by being a doormat. Good luck!

The fact that you would never actually walk away seems very relevant to your original questions.

> have no respect for me but as long as i had control over the product

Is this actually about the colors, or is it really about you needing to have control and be heard?

As a number of people have pointed out, you can fix the color problem with some configuration options, or introducing themes. That could actually improve the product too, "dark mode" is all the rage these days, etc.

Your situation seems to boil down to a few questionable assumptions:

* everyone needs to be using and seeing the same colors

* you need to have some control, input, or veto power over what those colors are

That's not a good way to operate. What would you do if someone else with your same level of sensitivity to colors and shapes joined the team, only they were triggered by your favorite colors, and insisted on switching to the colors that trigger you?

> Am I crazy?

No. If I had your sensory sensitivity I’m sure I would react similarly.

> Am I unreasonable?

Yes. In good companies, products are not designed with the CTOs personal color preferences in mind. Yes, even when those preferences are diagnosably strong.

You have three solutions: 1) Fight. Be warned, I suspect you will both lose the battle and alienate coworkers in the process. 2) Leave. 3) Develop coping mechanisms.

You should obviously do 3, even if you also do 1 or 2.

My 2c: If I were you I would seek professional help. I have a relative who had sound and tactile sensitivity as a child and a therapist was very helpful. If this is causing you so much distress, why not try and improve your ability to manage? What do you have to lose?

I am not in agreement with almost every other commenter on this post.

You likely have a need to be heard, which is completely and utterly valid. Your sensitivity, as you call it, is likely a sign that your deeply valid need to be heard is not being met.

You likely also have a need to be creative, which is manifesting in your desire to work on design, which is also deeply valid.

You likely also have a need to be treated as if you are competent, which you are and is deeply valid.

Other needs you may have -- appreciation, belonging, cooperation, communication, empathy, mutuality, respect, trust, authenticity... and many others. Most of us deeply struggle to get these needs met, in spite of them being valid and it probably being possible a lot more often than we think.

In NVC, non-violent communication, there is the concept that _needs are never in conflict, but strategies are_.

You have a strategy for meeting your needs. It sounds like your current strategy for meeting your needs as a human being are to (a) work with this team and (b) communicate with this team in the ways you have been communication. You are understandably getting upset that your needs are not being met -- both with yourself and the team.

The work you need to do to be happy is to take a step back and ask yourself your needs which. Here is a great list of needs -- https://www.cnvc.org/training/resource/needs-inventory. Remember that all your needs are valid.

From there, you need to think about what strategies you are using, whether they work and, if your strategies aren't working, which strategies you can use to get your needs met. That you can use to _actually_ get them met, because they are not being met right now. That might mean quitting the team you are on; or it could mean staying, but changing the way you communicate your needs. Again, without question, one of the things you need to do is _accept that your needs are valid and stop questioning them_, though you likely need to reconsider your strategy.

Good luck.

How would you feel if tomorrow the design team or the cofounders came to you and asked you to change the backend storage for your service from Postgres to Cassandra (I don't know what you use, just using this as an example). And when you ask them why, they refuse to offer a good reason other than "they find Postgres distasteful".

You cannot expect domain experts to change things on the product just because of your subjective reaction. Your options are either:

* Present some empirical data that backs up your argument (eg usability studies, publicly available literature)

or

* Accept that you are not a ui expert and live with it.

I worked at a company that had someone who acted like this (irrationally stubborn on design choices without providing data or reasons, having emotional tantrums and just generally super sensitive).

I liked the guy -- but everyone started ignoring him and then actively excluding him from all the business processes. Not inviting him to important meetings.

Eventually he got assigned a new project that was shortly "canceled" after and he was let go as being "redundent".

Fortunately, he got 6 months salary for leaving-- and time to find another job -- so I'd say it ended ok in that case.

The way that you've explained your reasons for hating the design so much, I think it absolutely does sound egotistical. You don't like it just because it goes against your arbitrary personal preferences, even though the company paid outside specialists to come up with the design and nobody else sees a problem. You're asking to throw out some of the progress that has been made just for your own pleasure.

Maybe there's a better way to explain what's wrong with the design. Don't just say "I hate it because my ADHD and that's it," explain how the design makes the product worse (if it actually does) or what is wrong with it.

I don't understand how there could even be a shape so ugly that it's worth throwing a fit over. Even if it was something really stupid like a calculator app where all the buttons were shaped like starfish, couldn't you just suck it up and make an ugly UI?

If it helps to judge the situation better: I tried to find the minimal changes to the colors that don't trigger me and they are so close that most colleagues did not even notice a difference, especially as they don't care about colors at all, they just want to not deal with the topic. I am not a designer and not saying the colors are great, this is just to illustrate how little change i would be happy with. Also having to deal with triggering colors in designs happened only the second time in 15 years so its not like this is happening all the time.

feel free to compare: green: #00FF96 (i hate, looks to me like a mixture of soulless startup color, poison and dentist) -> #33FF8C (acceptable)

blue #3200FF (i hate, gives me the feeling of not being able to focus my eyes and being a generic placeholder color, soulless) -> #0B06FF (acceptable)

Speaking as a technical person who also has considerable design experience, those initial colors you shared seem quite poor for anything but the most subtle of accent colors (perhaps a fanciful doodle on the side, or a very particular button in one place that's supposed to really pop). But as major colors in a branding guide/ site theme—yikes. Same with the blue. Way too saturated, RGB-style primary. Unless you're in a plastic toys for babies space, hmm.

If you're indeed "the product guy" on the team I don't understand how your opinion can be so overtly overruled and devalued. I'd be truly steamed.

No offence but the way you present it it seems to me only the eye focus issue is a genuine concern. All the others sound like simply your opinion.

In any case, looking at it from a problem solving pov (and assuming this is a web app), why don't you use custom css to your liking?

The business exists to make money, not cater to your whims. If you want to do things your way, start your own company.

They cannot understand your colour aversion, I don't think most people can if they haven't experienced it.

Think about it from their perspective, the CEO and business has invested effort/money into making a decision, a decision that is not generally in your purview (design). In almost all situations, even if the CTO vetoes a design decision made by CEO, the CEO should have final say. Generally, ignoring your hypersensitivity, you cannot be upset when CEO or other teams make non-tech decisions you disagree with.

Problem here is that the design impacts your work and output, which does have a business consequence. It is a business cost/risk that they did not factor into the decision. You should frame it this way, not because you have 10% and demand input in the decision because of this, this will cause your colleagues to lose trust in you. They will be worried if this issues come up when they make a non-tech decision.

Separately, them not including in the design process may be a cause for concern. Is it simply that they forgot to invite you to meetings and cc you on emails? Or did they leave you out on purpose? I don't know the situation, it really could be innocent/innocous.

Another options is to introduce a "theme". I.e. make the colors of the product a config options. For example you can look at vuetif or material UI.

Also note that you do only have 10%. I.e. they can let you go at any time / with or without cause (regardless of your efforts).

You may not even need this to be official. Could just introduce a custom theme for your own use using a browser extension like stylish.

I say may since I don't know that would work for mobile or native apps, or maybe you're having to look at other people's computers through screen sharing or whatever. I don't know what to tell you in that case.

Consider going on a vacation for a month or two. The company won't die immediately.

Excellent question and context. Long answer, four points.

1. With all respect to your experience being triggered, etc, your experience has nothing to do with the experience of most of your users whom you would acknowledge will likely not share that experience. The personal sensitivities of staff really is not what any business in its right mind solves for.

I won't say you are crazy, your experience is what it is, but the painful truth is that your personal experience is irrelevant to the business. It's really important- also painful- to see that. I'm sorry.

2. Your personal experience is relevant to your relationships in and outside the business, but only insofar as you nurture those relationships and that they are healthy ones for you. It sounds like they are not, and on top of that you are in a position of psychic debt from a relationship perspective to your perception of your ownership stake, which is probably a misperception.

3. Your ownership stake is a mirage. Numbers written on paper are worth nothing in early stages, they are strawperson framings of stakes that serve the purposes of the parties really driving the bus and will be changed in the blink of an eye (by dilution, etc) if it starts to matter.

It is SUPER SUPER important to understand that, and to transition your thinking to a mode where you have zero stake, that if you want this business to succeed that you are going to earn your stake, and the only way to earn your stake is to (re)build relationships with key people and to deliver results that matter to the business, not to you personally. Very likely this is a non starter for you.

4. The short painful version is that it very much sounds like you are in deep emotional debt and this colors everything.

No one is forcing someone with a dog allergy to sit next to a dog. They just aren't. If someone has a dog allergy, they can't work in a pet store. That's fine because there are lots of other jobs. Same here. No one is forcing you to work for this business. You can leave tomorrow and in practice you would lose nothing, because early stakes are on balance worth nothing.

You definitely think you can't leave- this is on you. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to you to get out of emotional debt and get back to a place where you can bring your strengths, and not your weaknesses, to your work.

If you were in an emotionally strong place with strong relationships you COULD leave tomorrow and find people who respected your sensitivities and who valued your understanding of the market and then that might be something.

My advice is to make emotional health your goal.

Best wishes, from someone who has been there, multiple times.

You are hypersensitive in a subject that doesn't bother them.

I would say make an adjustment with your skills; create and install local userscripts and custom styles inside your work pc to suite your preference so you can focus on work.

If you have to work with others on their machines, try adding experimental theming which can be toggled on a shortcut in dev environment. That way you will have a better experience, and you will be able to get fruit of your invested time and efforts.

You have no leverage. Your bluff was called. Your threats weren't backed up. You chose your hill and died on it, so to speak.

It may be harsh of me to say but IMO you should leave ASAP. Walk. Line up some work for your people, if they are with you still. You lost and it is unlikely your situation will improve at the leadership level.

Also, stop framing it as them being right/wrong vs. you being sane/crazy. That is a false dichotomy and largely irrelevant to the mechanics at play.

Easy fix on colors might be to make the product theme-able / skin-able.

Being ignored overall is not a good sign - I would demand clarification of roles & responsibilities.

When I experienced similar situations, it usually was because the big picture wasn't right. Specific small details could irritate me to no end, but they weren't really the source of my frustration.

For me, these situations were resolved by moving on and/or changing some aspects of my life.

Not saying this necessarily applies to you; just something to consider.

> When i threaten to leave without a redesign they say that i know the company would be dead the minute i walk away and i have to stay to save my shares and invested time

LOL then you say "Your shares will be dead too. The difference is you'll still have to work here!"

Rotate the colors around the hue wheel in the compositor to something you can stand.

Maybe it is possible to adjust the hue of the monitor, so the trigger colors are not hit. Maybe desaturate?

colors are super important to me, desaturating the monitor would feel like only eating things without taste. Also i spent a shitload of money on a Pro XDR, desaturating this would be a sin.

Wear sunglasses when you have to interact with the product.

Seek mental help? Hyper aversion to colors is not normal.

do test and see which one users find better, allow users to pick colors of their choice, and see what themes are more popular.