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Comment by zdw | Hacker News Reader

One big point - Apple supports it's products longer than the rest of the industry, thus they don't end up in landfills as quickly. For example:

- The original iPhone was released in June of 2007, and had the newest iOS (3.x) available until the release of iOS 4 in June 2010.

- The iPhone 3GS was released in June of 2009, and is still getting OS updates, even to iOS 5 released later this year.

How many Android phones are obsolete in 6 months, never receiving another software update? The impetus to upgrade and chuck the old phone is much higher in their case as obsolescence starts nearly immediately because the manufacturers only make money on the hardware itself.

You'll likely get at least 3 years of OS updates out of Apple, whereas you might get one if you're lucky and the manufacturer still likes the product with Android.

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It's also worth pointing out that Apple does have a program for recycling their equipment, and they'll even reinburse you with a gift card for certain things: http://www.apple.com/recycling/

They're not unique in this respect, too. WEEE and RoHS compliance is basically mandatory for Europe, so that requires manufacturers to have a safe disposal system in place for their electronics.

Samsung has a program with several local partners(http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/citizenship/usactivit...). Motorola(http://responsibility.motorola.com/index.php/environment/pro...) and Nokia(http://www.nokia.com/environment/recycling/where-and-how-to-...) also have programs to recycle your old electronics.

HTC does not seem to have a consumer recycling program in place, at least with the quick Google searches I've done.

EDIT: I have been corrected, as my Google-fu is weak. HTC does have several programs in place. Thanks!

HTC has a whole pile of recycling programs in different locations here are a few examples:

http://www.htcinc.net/news.cfm?id=56

http://htcpedia.com/news/htc-goes-green-and-lets-you-trade-u...

They will even give you a rebate on HTC phones in some locations if you turn in any old phone. That's not a proper recycling program because it requires the phone to boot, but it does take a lot of old phones out of circulation.

HTC should probably add a recycling section to their main website, the international nature of their website probably makes that problematic because they chose to have all these little local programs rather than one big universal one.

I got 2 years of use with my 3G. Bought it in 2008 and after iOS 4.0.1 (2010) it was an unusable, laggy mess. I searched high and low for an answer but there really wasn't one other than "downgrade, but Apple isn't cool with that". I ran into the abandoned issue with my Captivate, but it was relatively easy to flash a custom ROM based off ASOP Gingerbread: download ROM Manager from the market, download a rom, and flash.

From your own examples: - original iPhone supported for less than 3 years - 3GS supported for ~2 years

As much as one likes Apple, this is not something that I would call "long term support".

> original iPhone supported for less than 3 years

The original iPhone got all updates released for 3 years from its release date.

> 3GS supported for ~2 years

So far, as far as I know iOS 5 runs on 3GS. The 3G is the only one which got a slightly reduced support life so far (no iOS 4.3, for pretty obvious — to 3G owners — hardware-related reasons)

> As much as one likes Apple, this is not something that I would call "long term support".

Then you've never owned a smartphone before? If you can find a pre (or even post) iPhone smartphone that gets updates for 3 years+, I would love to see it.

Saying that you're no worse than everybody else is not the same as saying you're worth applauding.

If you've only worked with phones, you might have an inflated view of what "Long Term" means. The servers here, for example, run for 5 years between reboots. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

> Saying that you're no worse than everybody else is not the same as saying you're worth applauding.

I disagree. Apple is bringing smartphone software support out of it's "6 months then give up" cycle. I think that's worth applauding.

> If you've only worked with phones, you might have an inflated view of what "Long Term" means.

Right, I have a warped view of what long term support means because I'm comparing it to other consumer electronics instead of dedicated servers.

I'm sure if you are used to buying cars, seeing your phone's hardware warranty is pretty disappointing too. Expectations are a bitch.

The resale value of iPhones also makes them less likely to end up in a landfill. A two and half year old iPhone 3GS can still fetch around $400 on eBay if you unlock it. This is unheard of with android handsets.

The impetus to upgrade and chuck the old phone is much higher in their case

77% of surveyed iPhone 4 users were upgraders! Source : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/handicapping-apples-iphone-4-d...

This is a manufacturer issue. You can still install the latest android on the first official Android phone (HTC Dream).

How many non-geek people sideload? On how many phones is it impossible to do so because of a locked bootloader or other technological impediment?

I do agree that it's a manufacturer issue - specifically with a revenue model that give no reward for staying up to date (which is also horrible for device security...).

So what if non-geeks can't upgrade? It doesn't matter how skilled or un-skilled you are. You can take the G1 to a shop and get them to upgrade it for you. You can't take an iPhone and do the same thing.

Does it really matter? The upgrade would be pointless. Any first generation iPhone or Android device couldn't run the newest version of the OS well.

Says you. I've heard that some people with G1's have gotten some great performance with Cyanogenmod...

I'm using a G1 and the latest Android, and it has fine performance... It supports the latest apps and still does everything it did on release day.

When I see videos like these with a lot of lag I don't consider it to be running the OS well. It's bearable at best, which is always a matter of opinion.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0abA1fksE www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovUMS3f-QLw

I have the same phone and I do not experience anywhere close to that amount of lag.

Same here and the phone runs great.

even if it has lag. you have the option.

do you rather wait 2seg for an feature to finish executing or not have the feature at all? (as it would be if you had bought an iphone 3G instead of the G1 at the time)

He'd rather not have it, see copy/paste before iOS 3.

Clickable links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0abA1fksE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovUMS3f-QLw

I also have a G1 running 2.3.4 and it works great. Using it for dev as well.

How often you get recent software updates for your smartphone does not depend on Android or iOS, but the quality of your service provider.

Apple sells one new device each year and supports it well with updates. Google sells one new device each year and supports it well with updates.

The Nexus devices even have an advantage here, in that Google is not the only party that makes android-based operating systems for the series.

It's pretty sad if 3 years is the longest stretch that apple is willing to support their hardware with updates.

Of course the turnover in the mobile phone world is a lot higher than with 'general purpose computers' but imagine if the whole electronics industry had a three year time to replacement.

Pretty sad. Especially since the biggest component of a smartphone is the software. The argument that newer phones have faster hardware is a non-starter for me because I believe that it should be possible to comfortably get the kind of functionality that a typical phone displays to the user out of something a lot more anemic than the kind of hardware found in the average phone.

Manufacturers that push for their users to upgrade their phones before they die due to unfortunate events are all guilty of pollution and resource depletion.

It's not sad, that's simply the reality of how fast mobile technology is currently changing. We're doing more and more with our "phones" each day and thus are demanding more power from them.

Even if you only play games and such the old phones don't have gyroscopes, compasses, and all the other goodies that newer phones have.

Anecdotally I have a Nexus One and it feels just as dated as an iPhone 3GS (which I previously owned). To me that indicates it's not a problem with any manufacturer, it's the industry moving forward at breakneck speed.

Not being able to run certain apps is not the same as your mobile phone manufacturer no longer supporting the hardware you bought with updates.

At a certain point, supporting the old install base detracts from your ability to build newer and better product. Everything you design is forced to conform to the lowest-common-denominator standards of the oldest hardware models. Alternatively, you are forced to maintain staffing and resources to continue supporting old devices. This can be a serious roadblock to innovation.

Mobile hardware technology is moving so rapidly that it's almost inevitable to see shorter refresh cycles than you would in a more mature space, i.e., in laptops or desktops.

Well they do know that the unchangeable battery will be dead to useless in 3 years. At least they use incremental innovation in every rev to get you something new. Also, if they didn't use this strategy, they'd be more vulnerable to competition.

Anecdotal evidence to the contrary: My original 2G iPhone (now a heavy iPod touch for my daughter) is working fine and actually lasts longer than my 3GS unless it's on Netflix all day.

The support for my 3G has been terrible. They broke the OS after 18 months, then dropped it entirely, 2 years and one month after launch.

3 years is the bare minimum time I would expect a mobile phone to be supported, given the prevalence of 3-year lock-in phone contracts. If you enter a contract for 3 years, the expected natural lifetime of that product is 3 years. It doesn't have to have the latest features, but no company should leave the OS a buggy, broken mess and then dump it.

Yup.. I bought the orig iPhone in 2007 and the iPhone 5 in 2010. Missed out on gps, but otherwise never skipped a beat.

Err what? This month is three years since I got my Blackberry 8100, first released in 2006. No, it doesn't get the newest OS (though when I last looked in early 2010 it did get updates to OS 4.5), but it does work quite well and isn't heading for the landfill just yet. The problem of things going to the landfill is with the user, not the device or the manufacturer.

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