Ask HN: Is the US still the best place to live?
Are the (significantly) higher salaries worth it?
If you could take your salary and live in a different country, would you do it?
If you could take your salary and live in a different country, would you do it?
Cost of living has been increasing at rates that engineer compensation has not kept up with at all, especially in cities.
In many EU countries, you get 35 days of paid vacation mandated by law, along with 6 months to over a year of maternity and paternity leave. In the US, you get no such guarantee, and undercurrents of the Protestant work ethic are very well and alive in our culture. Sometimes new hires are expected to not take any paid vacations for the first first year of their employment. There's also a strain of private authoritarianism when it comes to employment in the US, by default, some employers treat their employees like property, and can seemingly dictate the terms of employees' off-time. Stemming from this are expectations of being on-call, but without the benefits of things like accruing overtime, being paid time and a half or with handsome bonuses that workers elsewhere tend to demand. All in all, workers' rights in the US are dismal compared to many first-world countries.
Truthfully, if I were younger and didn't have ties to the US, I would look into emigrating to the EU if they'd take me.
How does that work when (most? all?) healthcare packages often have ~3-7k max out of pocket fees per year?
I won't copy it here, but search that page for "surprise bills", "balance billing", and "loophole".
Social atomization, hyperconsumerism and a generally blighted physical environment (who-gives-a-fuck suburban sprawl nearly everywhere) are what define your life in most parts of this country, if you don't earn a high enough salary to offset their effects. That, and the relentless "life == work" mentality exhibited even in other comments in this thread.
(1) Genuine ethnic diversity (simply unmatched in its breadth and scale), and a genuine, bedrock belief that (at least in principle) if you're a citizen you have a right to be here and to live your own life, dammit whatever your ancestry, religious belief, however you dress, etc. The fact that the racism which does exist is so virulent comes in part from the fact that it is a minority view.
(2) Truly awesome natural beauty, also very diverse (what's left of it anyways)
(3) Pioneering in LGBTO and abortion rights while much of the world remains a frightening place indeed in these respects.
(4) A away of looking at life in the large and as full of possibility which has brought many bad things but also Jazz, Rock'n'Roll, amazing cinema, etc.
1) The diversity may be partially right, but even if you are a citizen there still is enough discrimination especially against black people than in many first-world countries
2) Okay I grant you that, for a single country the US is very beautiful, mostly because of its sheer size. That's not to say there aren't beautiful spots in other countries though, there just cannot be as many
3) LGBT and abortion rights while there still is the bible belt, people blocking planned-parenthood institutions, and a significant part of the government actively trying to ban abortions and same-sex marriages, partially successful
4) The new world perspective through the rise of a new country only a few hundred years ago lead to lot's of innovation, but it is an illusion that the USA is the only country where any innovation and creativity happens
If you only knew.
In brief: of course there are many shameful / antagonizing aspects to the culture here. But the broader undercurrent of acceptance here (rather than tolerance as in most countries) gives grounds for optimism, if you choose to embrace it.
The USA is the only country where any innovation and creativity happens.
That is absolutely not what I said and of course this isn't true. And I wouldn't even say is broadly "more" creative in any sense. But there is a certain "largeness" to the creativity -- and in the force of will in certain disempowered groups -- here, which I believe is quite special.
Which is why, in a few short years starting around 1969-1970, you had tens of thousands, then more, taking to the streets in NYC and SF saying, basically: "We are people, too, dammit -- and we are not going back". Whereas just a few years before they were almost universally considered to be outright deviants, if not mentally ill, with no prospect of living anything other than a life on the margins, perpetually in fear for their jobs, of arrest and beatings, and estrangement from their families.
Along with giving the world Steve Jobs, Star Trek, Soul Train, Dolly Parton, etc.
> (1) Genuine ethnic diversity (simply unmatched in its breadth and scale)
Brazil matches and surpasses, as far as I know
Edit: a quick google search indicates this is a controversial topic, to say the least
Also, kudos for recognizing that this is a valuable characteristic of a place for quality of life. Genuine ethnic food restaurants, a wide variety of interesting events and festivals, diverse influence in music and cultural hightlights... it does make a lot of difference for people attuned to its effects
Just to add, recent events have made the US even more appealing, but the "brain drain" from canada is very real and people have been moving to the US to make a better life for themselves for decades. I don't believe anything has changed
Advantages
- Higher Salaries (as a SWE, but similar for friends in other high skill professions)
- Faster, more accessible healthcare
- Easier access to COVID vaccines/boosters
- Access to more products/services
- Amazon has everything
- Better credit card perks
- Actually using healthcare is expensive
- Losing my job is insanely scary (losing healthcare)
- Way more advertisements (billboards, credit card offers, drug ads)
- Banking is way more fragmented
- The wealth gap is visibly wider (rich areas are slightly nicer, poor areas are far worse)Canadians are eligible for COBRA if they've earned income within the year. https://theea.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Whenisanemploye...
While this might be unusual, as I understand it, nothing really prevents you from getting your own insurance. Even if your health insurance premium were to cost $1000/month (which it likely doesn't), if your pay bump would be > $12k/year (+ tax) by moving as a SWE (which it probably would be), you could still go without a job for a whole year and still maintain your insurance. It would obviously be infeasible for someone in a profession with much lower income, but from what you said it sounds like it would be an option.
Even then, you have to have money to use it. On top of the insurance premiums, you'll have to pay a deductible. You'll probably pay $3000 (more or less) before the insurance even starts to pay anything, and then you'll have to pay a few thousand more before things start being free.
Prescriptions probably won't count towards these totals. If you are lucky, you will have good coverage. If not, you might be out a few hundred a month for a single drug. Depending. I mean, people have been rationing insulin.
I just looked on healthcare.gov, and any plan that is comparable to a plan an employer would give you costs over $900 a month in premiums alone. The plans start to get "good", if you can call them that, at $1k. The last time I used COBRA, my premiums were $2k.
I’m making the move this year. As a single income household there are a lot of tax advantages in the US compared to Canada.
All of Canada is still in a mass hysteria that will continue for years.
Every day that I live in Florida feels like one of the best decisions I've made in my life so far.
That said, the US has never been the best place to live.
Copenhagen beats every city I've ever been to by miles.
It's certainly a hot market as well, but there are a number of different options for financing. If your job is good enough it's certainly achievable and most of my software engineer friends there own their apartments.
I am currently in the Midwest and deciding where to go next, specifically back to the West Coast where I lived for a decade, or branch out to another warm state (FL, TX).
Seemed more like shell shock from recently escaping and needing to find a way to stay in Florida, which can be difficult.
This is big to me (and not in a "muh freedum!" way). My perception is that in the US, you can just do something. Start a business. Start a political party. Start a protest. Change your name. Change your face. Change your profession. Change your religion. Change your gender. Some of those may be non-trivial, and you have no guarantee of success, but you can do them in the US easier than you can anywhere else.
I said "my perception", because I haven't lived anywhere else, so... yeah. My perception.
I think if you actually attempt almost any of the things you listed you'll rough some feathers of people in that space and they will retaliate, because USA freedoms rely on lack of central control that allows inordinate amount of local bullying.
Off topic, but why is this term even remotely acceptable? If this was used to refer to an ethnic minority then everyone would be screaming "racist". Not to mention it's also sexists.
Such as?
FYI, I currently live in SF, but have worked elsewhere in the US and made considerably less. Maybe the difference isn't so stark now with the rise of remote work. But I do think remote work will ultimately lead to another wave of outsourcing, especially as the barrier for tech continues to decrease.
But there is a major headwind in location / real estate / cost of living. I was really intrigued by a recent poster who said $150k was enough for a 3 year run rate for their entire team in India!
Higher?? You'd have to be joking. When most people need several jobs to make ends meet?
When there is no single-payer health-care for the average joe? When a brief visit to an emergency room will set you back thousands. And if you don't have a job, it's very probable that you won't have any health insurance either. In other countries, a you can have a triple cardiac bypass for zero out-of-pocket expenses.
When people have very little paid holiday leave per year, if at all? In some countries, they get four to six weeks holiday per year, paid at normal (or higher) wage rates.
When waiters and waitresses have to survive on what tips they get, instead of getting a reasonable living wage and tips are extra on top.?
When many roads, bridges, schools, hospitals are in bad states of disrepair because there is no money for the infrastructure?
When many of the country's airports look like 1960s hangovers from the third-world. Have you seen modern airports in the Middle East or Asia?
The US is nowhere near the 'best place to live'. Sorry.
Check out the 'most livable places' list 2021:
1 - Norway; 2 - Ireland (tie); 2 - Switzerland (tie); 4 - Iceland (tie); 4 - Hong Kong, China (SAR)(tie); 6 - Germany; 7 - Sweden; 8 - Australia (tie); 8 - Netherlands (tie); 10 - Denmark.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-coun...
For developing nation immigrants, US can be appealing.
For natural/existing US citizens, the US is a good starting point to leverage in more developed nations.
Salary discussion is a bit limiting, better to just be rich enough. Have capital. If you must live off of what you earn you just want to earn more from one area and spend less in another area, so the answer to that is “yes”.
I would be interested in hearing what place might eventually (or now) be the US but better.
The US I grew up in felt a little more naviely optimistic and ambitious which I would like to find more of.
Lately it seems like I mostly meet extremely capable people who have access to massive capital and they choose to live a quiet life and retire rather than build stuff. Which is fine...but not what I'm looking for.
India seems like a compelling possibility. Maybe Nigeria in a couple years?
It's worth pointing out too how much this depends on city too.
SF used to be the place that still had all that stuff but I've heard it's pretty tough to live there now.
But I was not really impressed. Recently someone offered me a position in FAANG company, I refused despite the high salary.
In my humble opinion, your country is too diverse that it’s starting to hurt, you are being polarized over trivial stuff and social interactions are too shallow (I prefer opposite countries where it’s harder to engage with people but where discussions get a lot deeper)
Also the American dream is not really appealing to me, I have lived in 5 countries (for at least a year), the US is the one I enjoyed the least
Actuary tables are kinda the end all be all for living:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe...
But if you have more specific considerations there's likely stats on that.
And I was born and raised in the beautiful Mediterranean coast in Europe.