Comment by 2Gkashmiri | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 2Gkashmiri | Hacker News Reader

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i am not an american or chinese so a third party. here is my question.

does "America has lost the narrative and the Chinese have gained it without question" this mean till now it was america who was defining what the rest of the world saw and remembered, making history for "everyone" not just for themselves. remember rambo and the mujahideen? america has for long used its power to influence narrative across the world. asl a random person on the street anywhere in the world about iran and "anti-israel muslims, evil" would be the answer 7/10. why was that? because american hollywood has made boogeyman out of american military enemies.

now china is doing the same so why is this a big deal? why can't americans live with this?

uh, "destroying our freedom of expression " more like free market with power and tested capability to use as a propaganda tool because "hey. we support freedom of expression so anything we say is correct".

i am not criticizing you personally. just saying americans should come down a step from their self proclaimed high horse of world saviors and be like the rest of the folk.

It's not an America vs. China struggle as you put it. The "rest of the folk" around the world are not content with China's deliberate attempt to conceal, twist, and even completely rewrite the history either.

Yes, America has enjoyed its massive worldwide influence over the past few decades and it has definitely gotten away with abusing it's power at times. Much of it was because the flow of information wasn't as free back than as it is today, but it was also because America, for all its faults, really did at least try and do a lot of good as a "self-appointed world leader".

My opinions aren't exactly unbiased having grown up in South Korea (recipient of lots of good will from the US), but the situation isn't simply that America has lost its edge over China and is complaining - it's more that Chinese government is really aggressive in promoting their agenda and are much more willing to sacrifice certain ideals (freedom of expression, etc) to get there. I can say this as a person who have attended a secret Christian worship meeting in China: Say what you will about the US, but it's not China.

sure. i have my hands full you know. i currently live in a place where posting a video or tweeting is seen as a threat to the country and journalists are being arrested left and right. just yesterday. https://thekashmirwalla.com/kashmiri-journalist-charged-for-...

i remember a time when religious folks used to feverently talk against "communism" as if it was a plague and all those dried up once ussr collapsed. turns out usa was funding anti-ussr sentiments in my hometown because why not.

sure. i do not enjoy "freedom of expression", living in a similar place like china.

i get your point. china is pushing their agenda aggressively but the way i have seen it in the last 40 odd years, 20 with the whole "war on terror" and "wmd" and even "gaddafi" and "arab spring", i find america just as dirty. you may not like it but remember, gaddafi wanted to trade in gold and not in american dollars and he was killed for that. same for saddam.

i personally believe having seen some action, no country, india, china, usa, france is willing to uphold "freedom of expression" if it threatens its interests, business interests. thats a simple fact. unless you face that

Definitely a given that American movies have comical stereotypes for "bad guys". I don't know what to say except that America's pretty divided right now. In some parts, you won't find a lot of love for Israel and the Iran nuclear deal was a good idea. It's hardly a monolith.

But I would contest this notion that China is a free market. This is not people voting with their wallets and the government often threatens direct economic retaliation against companies for even minor "infractions" of speech, like listing Taiwan as a country in a dropdown box. International companies do not have a level playing field in China, if they can legally operate there at all (e.g. joint venture requirements). Hell, even domestic companies need to watch where they step if they get too big like Jack Ma.

i agree that china isn't a free market. i am saying neither is india nor usa. https://www.ndtv.com/business/visa-complains-to-us-governmen...

visa is complaining to usa demanding that india not give preferential treatment to their own card network because india knows usa can unilaterally kill a country's card infrastructure by simply telling visa/mastercard to stop their services. that is abuse of power and not "free market".

>like listing Taiwan as a country in a dropdown box.

uh, doesn't usa like sanction companies from working with iran? is that not violating level playing field? or the anti-bds? https://news.yahoo.com/muslim-group-sues-block-no-boycott-is... https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boyco... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws

come on. usa is same as china, if not the same level but cut from the same cloth. saying otherwise is false

I suppose all I could offer in defense is that the Iran sanctions were over nuclear technology, ISIS, etc; not speech or "loss of face". Ugh, still, the Middle East makes the US lose its damn mind.

I hadn't really followed anti-BDS laws (not a thing in my state). Looks like they get slapped down pretty easily by the courts for violating free speech.

need i remind you iran had a coup organized by cia and british inteligence because the ruler decided to nationalize oil and not give in to shell? what happened in 79? there was no nuclear threat back then. it was just oil and control.

funny you mention nuclear tech. the iran deal was supposed to prevent that and it was usa who shot that down, not iran and you blame them for trying?

you may not know this but the reason for sanctions on iran is to specifically install a government that is kind to israel because israel lobbies for that in us congress and they have installed the whole "oppose israel=support holocaust=hitler bad". they could not do arab spring there so more sanctions.

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