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Comment by vishnugupta | Hacker News Reader

I lived in the NL for a year. Their road ways are a work of art. I can go on and on about their beauty, utility all day long. I mean look at this [1] and this [2] for instance.

[1] https://imgur.com/aEwTSm0

[2] https://imgur.com/4Lreaar

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Those are pictures of a Cambridge roundabout, trying to imitate a Dutch roundabout. However except for very light traffic situations all (as far as I am aware) roundabouts newly constructed in the Netherlands are so called turbo-roundabouts [1]. Other than that, I agree that the standard of roads and infrastructure in the Netherlands is a fair bit higher than anywhere else I know of. Of course there are nice roads in every country, but in the Netherlands, there are almost no really bad roads, and every freeway is properly designed and maintained.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Turbo_roundaboutsle... turbo-roundabouts.

> Those are picture of a Cambridge roundabout,

I realised it minutes after posting it when I noticed the driving was on the left (as opposed to right in NL) :-). The architecture is very close to those in the NL though which fooled my lazy eyes. Pedestrian islands, enabling free movement of cyclists with clear markings etc.,

How does right of way with this wide separation work though? In my experience (not Dutch) it always goes like this when a car and a cyclist approach a point where their paths cross and the cyclist has right of way: cyclist slows down to be ready for an emergency stop knowing full well that right of way won't be of any help when bones are crushed, driver takes it as an invitation to "slip" through.

The usual cooperative approach of "I have right of way, I can help my peer by accelerating a bit so they don't have to wait so long" seems to only work with participants in roughly the same weight class.

Car drivers get trained when doing driving lessons. There are so many roundabouts that you have to cooperate as a car driver. Also, it is well-known that when an accident happens, the car driver gets the financial damage, and yes, the insurance will pay, but he/she will lose a big percentage of the no-claim decrease in insurance fee.

Recently, local governments are moving away from the real small roundabouts like this one because in the dark, when it is raining, with cyclists who are without lights, these are still somewhat unsafe: https://www.telegraaf.nl/images/1540x866/filters:format(jpeg...

These are much more modern, and car drivers can more easily see cyclists and mopeds come: https://www.denhaag.nl/upload/0690e94f-f7ac-43a3-8c1e-4fb768...

Oh, and yes, car drivers can sometimes be aggressive. The same counts for cyclists though. I guess both kinds of people are just like normal people. And by the way, a lot of people are one day car drivers, the next day cyclist, there is a lot of sympathy.

I simply don't understand why roundabouts aren't just shared. Do separation as much as you like 10m away from them, but in the roundabout, there's exactly zero excuse for a speed difference between motor vehicles and bikes. When drivers are expected to let segregated cyclists pass on leaving the roundabout, they actually have to go slower than they would merged behind even the laziest cyclist. I really don't get it.

(yes, the answer will be "but children!", but I'm a believer in "treat cyclists like children and only children will ride bikes!" and I'd be a firm believer if the Netherlands didn't have this annoying habit of proving me wrong ;))

Blind spots. The driver turning right doesn't see the cyclist planning to take the next exit if the bike lane is right next to the car lane.

With a segregated bike lane the driver turbing right has the bike lane in front of them.

Basically, the bike always has right of way and cyclist act like it as well, cyclist don't slow down and assume the any cars will stop, on the other hand, car drivers are drilled to always be on the look out for cyclists and give them all the space required, you get drilled on this and don't get a license untill you fully understand how to keep cyclists safe, that in practise means you need about 40 hours of driving lessons before you have any change of getting a driver's license. On the liabity side of things, the law basically assumes the driver of the car (more generally a motorised vehicle) is always at fault. Aside from some extremely reckless behaviour bordering on intentially throwing yourself in front of a car, any damages to your own vehicle as well as the cyclist you hit, is coming out of the motorists insurance.

Cyclists have unilateral priority over everything else. I suppose first few years a few cyclists' bones did get crushed. However through training, stringent laws etc., it's drilled into everyone to make way for cyclists. At the roundabouts there's no negotiation etc., Motor vehicles dare not slip through. They patiently wait lest they invite the wrath of authorities.

I suppose there's a better way. However, as a society, Dutch have decided to go whole nine yards to being a cycling friendly nation. And it shows and has its benefits.

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