Ask HN: Can you relax without a screen? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Can you relax without a screen?

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Can you relax without a screen?

Today I did something I haven’t done for years:

I lay on the couch, put on my headphones, and listened to music.

Nothing else, just listened to music. Sure enough, I stopped after 2 songs. Got bored. Needed a little more stimulus.

They say it’s about dopamine baseline. Scrolling instagram is 10x stronger dose than listening to a good song. If you scroll Instagram every 2 hours, then just music is not really much of pleasure.

I think this just might be behind this burnout generation. I have many times find myself absolutely unwilling to clean my house or take out the trash. It wasn’t always like this. Years ago, I would’ve found pleasure in doing those things.

Now I simply don’t.

Is it really too much screen time? Is my dopamine baseline all out of whack? Or am I burnt out? Do I need to take 6 month sabbatical?

I wonder if anyone else is going through this sort of thing.

I think your brain is working quite normally. It knows that there is something very interesting and novel nearby so it wants to keep an eye on it. You can’t expect to just simply control or subdue this because it’s kind of a core cognitive function, as far as I can tell. But you can exert conscious changing of your environment.

I don’t think “listening to recorded music alone” has been a big part of human behavior for more than a few years in the 20th century. Music used to be something you’d attend to with company in convivial places. That’s a very different context for your attention.

The phone is like a very compelling alternative. Imagine a negotiation: you’re always referencing your backup alternative. Even a lover can have a hard time competing with the infinite jest of the internet. This is our world, maybe our central challenge.

Maybe you can clean your place in a way that’s more radical, funny, joyous. Maybe you can do it while listening to a podcast. Maybe you can turn it into a thrilling kind of spiritual exercise.

Religion, I think, has always revolved around this challenge, in different manifestations. Some old people might call it the devil, he’s always alluring, appealing, fascinating, charismatic, addictive… You might not want to be religious about it but still, you might need some powerful and radiant ally against the “adversary.” Or maybe you need to bow down and admit your weakness and find some paradoxical shimmering of strength in humility.

Nice writing

I really enjoy just listen to music, and I do it quite often. So OP example feels strange..

If anything, I get waaay to excited / uplifted when listening to favorite songs, so I simply can't do it at work or before sleep. I am just listening to something "chill" that doesn't have an emotional baggage

reading is one of the most straightforward activities to get deep concentration back. Read in a room without distraction, or in general do uninterrupted work, art or sports without distracting yourself or multitasking.

However the entire 'dopamin fasting/detox' thing is unscientific[1]. You can't detox from what is a basic neurotransmitter involved in just about anything in your brain or body. Detoxing from it makes about as much sense as bloodletting. You don't need to deprive yourself of stimulation, which in general is healthy, or do anything radical.

[1]https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/dopamine-fasting-misunde...

It's just as unscientific to quote a blog with no citations. That article doesn't even make any arguments. It's just an attack on Sepah and "the modern wellness industry".

Are there any studies that support "dopamine fasting"?

I'm personally not aware of any

"Dopamine fasting" is a bit of a straw man. If you look at the actual article that popularized it [1], it actually says that name is a misnomer, and it's really about staying away from stimulation.

Go down the article and you'll find that it's really a different name for a certain form of meditation. There are plenty of studies linking meditation to attention span. Look for something that matches the methodology of a "dopamine fast". There's some link between refraining yourself for a few days and improved attention span [2]

So the methodology probably works, but the idea of some dopamine baseline is probably BS.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/style/dopamine-fasting.ht...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10538...

>Our findings suggest that 4 days of meditation training can enhance the ability to sustain attention

From the second link you posted. The article is specifically about the practice of meditation, which there have been numerous studies on showing benefit.

We're constantly being stimulated no matter what we're doing. If we're going to examine what tasks are specifically harmful I think the definition needs to be more clear.

> Got bored. Needed a little more stimulus.

If you are getting bored while trying to relax, do you really need to relax in the first place? Is it even possible to get bored if you are physically and mentally exhausted?

I take boredom to mean my body is trying to get me to stop laying about, not that it craves entertainment. Go to the gym or tidy up or something. Then when you are tired, relaxing comes a lot more naturally.

I also think a lot of people have a really low tolerance for boredom. It may be useful to just sort of linger in the experience for a while, explore what it feels like to be bored. It's a bit uncomfortable, but hardly the worst situation a person has ever been in.

> If you are getting bored while trying to relax, do you really need to relax in the first place?

Yes, because boredom is important. Always being 'online' is detrimental.

Why is boredom important?

[Veritasium Boredom](https://youtu.be/LKPwKFigF8U)

>> Got bored. Needed a little more stimulus.

Naturally, we are inclined to one of two reactions to stuff like this:

1. Resist, f.e. keep listening to music no matter what 2. Bow and look for the next exciting thing

Try something different. Try watching the feeling of "getting bored" without judging it, just watch. You will notice that it swiftly goes away and is replaced by other feeling.

I’m writing a book about MMORPGs - Why We Play. I think your answer is spot on: we all just need something to loop around.

That sounds interesting. Is it going to be about the psychology behind why people play those games? Is there a way for people to stay up to date with progress on the book / when it might be released?

Precisely! It’s essentially the psychology of why we play (theories of motivation, drive, etc.) intertwined with coevolutionary analysis of why we choose to go to virtual worlds, and why this world over that.

Not yet, but I’m getting far enough along that I do want to start publishing some essays. I’ve been working on this for a year now. Rest assured, your username has been safely jotted down in the corner of my notebook for when I finally grow some sort of presence.

I feel like it's easier to relax without a screen. Things like fishing and mushroom foraging are relaxing. Even the drive to or from them can be (especially nice weather, windows down, slow country road).

I probably don't "relax" when I sit in the couch to listen to music, because then I'm listening to music and that requires a lot of attention and focus.

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