It makes me sad that we now have to treat a MacOS initial setup as a hostile experience, the same way as setting up Windows 10 for an offline user account and intentionally not creating a microsoft account. The number of steps and dark pattern UI things a Windows 10 Home or Pro user has to jump through in the initial install to create a local-only account is really quite amazing. I just did a fresh install of a win10 home VM recently and ran into this.
Two of the reasons I switched from a FreeBSD desktop environment to MacOS back in the 10.4 days (Tiger?) was because of the switch to the Intel CPUs with the first gen Macbook Pro, and that MacOS had become a fairly refined, polished desktop environment with a CLI, macports, and a decent selection of applications.
Not only is apple now hostile but it's actively dangerous and harmful to its users' data, as shown in the example linked in this post, because if you go with the "online" apple account you risk getting locked out of everything you were using on a regular day-to-day basis.
Now if we have to think of Apple as a hostile entity that is doing the same shit as microsoft, it makes me very disappointed.
This is certainly true for companies like Google that very famously refuse to provide customer support.
However, companies like Amazon, Netflix, and Apple provide robust, free customer support.
based on the amount of fake/fraudulent products sold on amazon's marketplace I really can't concur that they have robust customer support that is really empowered to do anything.
Between Apple, Google and Microsoft, only Apple provides free customer support, in person, or over the phone.
Microsoft provides support, but you have to pay for it.
Google is the only one of the big three computing platforms that literally couldn't couldn't care less about your issues.
Its not free, you paid for that as part of your purchase cost.
You just didn't get it.
It's sad and disappointing but not surprising in any way. The immutable truth is we simply can't trust these companies. We need to cut them out of our lives as much as humanly possible.
Linux is flawed but it's ours. I hope we continue to have unlocked computers to run it on forever.
If you want iCloud or Apple Music you can set those up with your AppleID later (I cannot imagine wanting iCloud but that's just me).
Did Apple hire the guy in charge of Windows 10 user accounts?
This is not true of Microsoft.
>Windows 10 users are annoyed that Microsoft has hidden the local account option when setting up a new PC or reinstalling Windows 10. A user on a popular Reddit thread notes that the local account option is now invisible if the device is connected to the internet.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-users-fume-microsof...
I would argue that making the use of cloud services be the default forces users who aren't aware that it's optional and especially when they don't know that there *are* real downsides to using it.
The button to skip that step in Apple's setup wizard is even labeled "Set this up later" to make it clear that the user isn't giving up the ability to use a cloud account later by skipping the step during the setup wizard.
No, but on the other hand there are plenty of services where "later" means "nag me" and "stop functioning after a certain amount of time"
It would be better and clearer if Apple simply and clearly stated "iCloud account is optional and not required to use your Mac"
Offering an easily skippable option during setup is not the same thing as the intentional dark patterns common on other platforms.
>In this report, we analyze a sample of settings in Facebook, Google and Windows 10, and show how default settings and dark patterns, techniques and features of interface design meant to manipulate users, are used to nudge users towards privacy intrusive options.
The findings include privacy intrusive default settings, misleading wording, giving users an illusion of control, hiding away privacy-friendly choices, take-it-or-leave-it choices, and choice architectures where choosing the privacy friendly option requires more effort for the users.
https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/no-undersokelseka...
The iTunes store still exists though. Which is probably what the agreement stuff was for.
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/47253/can-i-safely...
Each time an Apple process tries to connect, make a rule that says that app is never allowed to connect to any server, and set the rule lifetime to "forever". There are about 20-30 Apple processes in macOS that phone home even if you don't use iCloud, iMessage, or FaceTime, or the App Store. Once you block all of them your computer will be quiet on the network.
I suggest revisiting and if it’s not for you, that’s fine. But otherwise, yeah never sign-in with Apple.
At least they are not agressive about it, unlike Windows 10 or even 11 home which doesn’t even allow local accounts.
Remember when librarians basically revolted because the patriot act let the feds get library borrowing records without a warrant? Apple's Books app is several times worse. It's nonconsensual spyware, even if you use only your own local files and never engage in trade with Apple for ebooks.
Don't use it.
Apple can decrypt the entire thing without you, your password, or your device. They do this when they receive a warrant, and they do this 20,000+ times a year for warrantless requests (no probable cause) from the USG, too. This includes all your photos (effectively unencrypted) and all your iMessages and attachments. Nothing really important on your iPhone is private from Apple.
Also, if your cc fails for whatever reason, you will get locked out of your Apple ID, and won't be able to log in to or use any of the services you use Sign in with Apple on.
Bad, bad tradeoff.
Obviously this issue of needing to change accounts is problematic and I can see resetting your account password through your Apple ID to be a pro/con depending on the person. Is there something else I’m missing?
So if you don't want the issues described, don't opt into "Find my Mac" (Personally, I'm quite fond of the option, but YMMV).
You don't need to login to the laptop with your Apple ID to do that, you just need to put your account into messenger.
It confounds me how many of my colleagues don't do this. But when I explain my reasoning, nobody has complained.
I understand that Apple requires its own employees to use personal IDs, which is really messed up. That organizational design flaw probably contributes to situations like the one we're discussing, since it might seem abnormal to an Apple person that someone would be associated with multiple IDs.
If they were to send that email to your locked iCloud account, you wouldn't be able to receive it.
When you wake up in bed you don't grab two phones, you grab one.
When setting up, create a local account first. You’ll have an opportunity to later log into your AppleID for use with messages, FaceTime, App Store, etc.
You can also switch to a local sign in account after the fact. This may have changed in recent versions, but try going to system preferences and selecting to reset your password. You should see an option to switch to a local account for sign in, which will only impact the log in process. You’ll still be able to keep your id associated for all of the other benefits.
I have set up several MBPs from factory over the past ten years and it hasn’t ever been apparent to me that you could use your AppleID to log in locally.
I’ve attached every single one of these devices to my AppleID for iCloud but none of them have used anything but local credentials to sign in. And it’s been far from hard to do. It was—as best as I can tell—the normal setup path.
It's not hard to have a personality without being condescending.
I have never even noticed the ability to log in with my AppleID (as opposed to local authentication), but GP is arguing that Apple actively makes it difficult to avoid doing so. Something about that is wildly incongruent with my own personal experience and I am truly, genuinely confused.
However, the commenter I responded to did not realize this. Likewise, most of the non-technical Apple users that I encounter in my work make the same incorrect assumptions. I probably overcorrect a bit here, but I’ve learned that it helps to to validate the experience of the person I’m trying to educate.
To be more precise in my initial statement, I don’t think Apple makes this part of their interface as clear as it could be (or should be), and I don’t think they provide the average user with the information to understand the implications of using Apple credentials to sign into their device. I don’t assume that this is malicious. I’m sure they are driven some by benefits to the company, but I also suspect they think that this makes life easier for their users. There may be some truth to that, but I think it’s a poor default.
I work with small business owners and employees in the health care field (and teach as a University adjunct). At least in the health care context, there are compliance implications associated with these features (something that Apple Support and Genius’s often fail to understand as well).
In terms of the interface, when I’m working with a developer or tech worker, I consider the first-time setup and system preferences UI to be good enough. But I don’t think that’s true when it comes to a therapist, office manager, non-profit director, or even the majority of my undergraduate informatics students.
On a separate note, I do have thick of enough skin not to be bothered by this response, but I hope you consider some of the replies regarding the tone. In this type of forum, reframing that bewilderment as curiosity will be much better received and help you avoid invalid assumptions about your intent!
With Home a workaround I've found is just creating a throwaway windows account, then after installation creating a local user/local login and removing that throwaway account.
However one has to be careful one's license does not become/is not associated with that account.
It's meant for theft protection but it causes us headaches at work when employees have left and used their personal Apple ID. Apple will disable it but only if you can prove ownership.
At least OP was able to contact Apple support,
1. I couldn't delete my Facebook account because my startup FB page backup isn't getting generated and there's no way to reach the support[1].
2. LinkedIn has fingerprinted my account login from a particular browser/OS that I'm unable to login via any other browser/OS(In the same network).
[1] https://abishekmuthian.com/meta-is-holding-my-facebook-page-...
It’s entirely possible that something like this did exist in some earlier installer version but I don’t know that from a vague statement like this. Feels kinda like throwing Windows under the bus unnecessarily.
https://hothardware.com/news/bypass-windows-11-internet-setu...