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Comment by streamofdigits | Hacker News Reader

> Now anyone can play, at the same time that traditional paths to wealth...

the association of wealth with "playing" is very much a metastasis of the old system masqeurading as some sort of innovation. this is not wealth creation, this is zero sum games robbing orphans and widows. be my guest "playing" and feeling smug about it, but lets not rewritte the meaning of words

actually that strongest hint that crypto as it stands is an ugly distraction is that there is no real wealth creation associated with it. as in: a real economic activity (that is kosher) that has been enabled by it while it was prevented by fiat currency systems

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Sure, I see you saying there’s no “real value” here. I get where you’re coming from, there’s no clear output of value the way we think about it sometimes. For years, even owning tokens, I was torn by this dichotomy. There’s no real value being produced…yet they’re transacting millions of dollars, and now billions, and now trillions. It was hard for me to reconcile that. What gives? I would ask you to consider your definition of real value. If you also advocate for the shuttering of high frequency trading firms, investment banks, and quant desks the world over, then fine, I respect your take. But people want to speculate and play zero sum games. Is what Wall Street does “real” to you? I don’t mean giving out loans. I mean the rampant trillions of dollars worth of speculation that is the real bedrock of what they do. Why does something have to provide “real value” to exist? Close all the poker tables, lotteries, casinos, stock exchanges. What this whole saga has actually made me think is, what is “real value”? Why does this feel different to you? It took me some time to recognize, this is real for many people. That’s all the value that’s needed. Again, the article points that out pretty well I think. And finally, the usage of the phrase “widows and orphans” feels a bit extreme.

> If you also advocate for the shuttering of high frequency trading firms...

yes, that is what I mean by "metastasis of the old system" but there is much more nuance: the overfinancialization of the economy is a recent phenomenon and while it is not black-and-white to separate from actual underlying intermediation needs I seem to recall somebody claiming that 5% of the current financial sector is actually useful. The rest is parasitic wealth transfer, essentially exploiting governance failures. With crypto there is no real economy so it is 100% parasitic.

I don't have a problem with an entertainement oriented gambling industry provided it is informed, discretionary and it does not become an abused addiction. But ideally in a society that has real problems to solve (health, education, environmental degradation) you want to harness the speculative instincts of both finacial system end-users and intermediaries to really perform "God's work"

Alright, I get where you’re coming from. I am a believer in the vampire squid as a mascot for investment banks. And I do think that the brain drain from more positive endeavors into these ones simply because they pay spectacularly more is not necessarily positive. A nuanced counter to the argument, I appreciate it and will ponder.

Who are the orphans and widows being robbed by crypto bubbles?

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