Comment by gumby | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gumby | Hacker News Reader

I found one sympathetic use of homeopathy. My mother in law had cancer and had several years of treatment (really excellent treatment in a variety of hospitals and clinics around Germany over the years) but eventually they ran out of things that might work and sent her home for good. I noticed that she was quite diligent with her homeopathic medication, and as she became more disabled, her kids and the Diakonie nurse continued this right up to the end.

Why would they bother? Why would the insurance continue paying for this (she certainly couldn't have afforded it)? I think they did this because it gave her a sense of agency, and therefore increased the quality of her life at the end. She was sent home to die, but she remained a human being up to the end.

This radically changed my view of homeopathy, mainly because I think it provided (IMHO) good value to her. Before that I considered it an unmitigated scam.

However if this article's thesis is correct, it's worse than merely a scam.

It is worse than a scam.

Homeopathic practitioners sell false hope. They do their own tests, their own diagnoses, sell their own preparations, and then review their client’s progress. There is no check, no balance. But “big pharma gives medical doctors kick backs” and that’s bad!!

They don’t see a lack of progress as them not being effective, but as an opportunity to sell more. If you aren’t progressing, then it’s you, the client, that is not doing something right.

But they are stuck in a scam too. They’ve paid for expensive training and materials. Some buy expensive equipment. Some of that equipment is legitimate, but they aren’t trained how to use it properly. Given that they have been convinced to invest so much, they in turn need to get an income from clients. They are victims too, at least in the short term.

But long term homeopaths and their ilk prey on our fears and hopelessness purely for profit.

I do believe that many start out believing, and that it is the recruiters and trainers that are even worse, but they can’t honestly keep practicing without realising it’s wrong. That would require them to admit that they have been scammed, have lost a sizeable investment and ripped off a number of people that they probably care about.

It’s scams all the way down.

If it worked, there would be no poor homeopaths. None would be struggling paying back loans for training and equipment. They’d be working for hospitals and command wages like medical doctors.

> Homeopathic practitioners sell false hope.

While true, the example of GP is convincing, in the same way that placebos are effective: homeopathy gets some people something in certain situations. I don't think homeopathy should be part of regular medical treatment, but I don't see the harm if it's used (on peoples own dime, which is how it works in my country) alongside or after regular medicine.

It's a bit like religion perhaps, I don't want it to replace science, but if it helps some people get through dark times, maybe we should let them.

saw the same with my father but wouldn't have said it was a good thing. he actively avoided doctors and refused their treatments and recommendations, yet continually kept going to alternative medicine clinics and following up on their treatments. Might have helped them mentally and psychologically, but definitely didn't treat the cause.

It is a scam.

And it might not do much harm for a lot of people but do we.think it's fair to accept it next to medicine if we know that there are also people who will not try cancer treatment or delayed do to some healer who thinks that can also heal cancer?

I don't accept this and the current vaccine crisis shows how bad it can be to accept bullshit as medicine.

I'm also lost on what you think this shared added to your mothers life? Taking homeopathic things did what? Gave her positive memories?

I really don't get it. A nice walk in the park probably gave her real joy.

You don’t get it because she wasn’t your mother. Show some respect.

I suspect I would have felt differently had she jumped there first à la Steve Jobs.

She only ended up down the homeopathic pathway when other alternatives had been exhausted and on that basis I am glad it was available to her and consider it a good thing.

Steve Jobs found out about his cancer in 2003. During a CT scan for kidney stones. He was seeing a doctor. He died in 2011. He was one of the few people to have his genome fully sequenced and got gene targeted therapy from Switzerland in 2009.

He only refused surgery and not modern medicine. He even had an under the radar liver transplant(probably jumped the queue and hence the article mentions ‘under the radar’ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2011/10/24/steve-j... )I doubt if he opted for homeopathy(and homeopathy doesn’t claim to cure cancer or congenital issues that require surgery. It only treats symptoms.)

[..] Jobs’ cancer had been discovered by chance during a CT scan in 2003 to look for kidney stones, during which doctors saw a “shadow” on his pancreas. Isaacson told CBS’ 60 Minutes last night that while the news was not good, the upside was that the form of pancreatic cancer from which Jobs suffered (a neuroendocrine islet tumor) was one of the 5% or so that are slow growing and most likely to be cured.[..]

The article also said that he waited 9 months for the surgery instead of immediately as it was thought to be a slow growing cancer and he was reluctant to be ‘cut open’. How many people with pancreatic cancer like Steve Jobs had survived as long as he did..now that’s a data point.

She was my mother in law and she turned to these after scientific medicine (which pretty clearly extended her life for many years) could do nothing more for her.

TBH I am not sure she really had a good grasp of the difference, but she definitely went for the standard of care and diligently followed their recommendations and advice while she could.

Obviously, I can’t speak for this person or their mother, but there is a desire to find a miracle cure, or even a way to provide a feeling of control in an otherwise hopeless situation.

I think there are ways to do this that aren’t exploitative like homeopathy is.

It’s evil to prey on the sick and the dying for profit. Homeopathy should be illegal.

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