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Comment by lotsofpulp | Hacker News Reader

I am hearing that employers in the US are no longer able to negotiate the low pay per hours of work, often at undesirable times of the day and week and year, that they used to be able to demand.

The type of work described in the article has a reputation of low pay per hour and being undesirable.

> TSMC will have to change to an eight-hour work day five days a week.”

Is this US society breaking down and American people being “ungovernable”? Or is it people being able to negotiate reasonable pay to working conditions ratios?

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Yeah agree. After reading more of the article I’m wondering if it’s more of a hit piece than anything else. Az has plenty of semi industry. TSMC may just want to back out. Edit-or maybe TSMC wants pretext for some eventual reason like backlash. Edit 2-or it could merely be an author looking for a story or a competitor looking to smear TSMC. People do have a way of seeming All around horrible until some missing criteria is changed-like better pay or giving them some leeway.

Two things can be true though and may not be related.

I think they are just unrelated...

I don't really see it as a hit piece, all sides here sound reasonable. It will be interesting to see what the end solution is. I think that the author would have shown a strong opinion on how to resolve it if it was a hit piece.

I agree. As usual, the headline overstates the article. The actual article (mostly sourced from anonymous online comments...) doesn't sound nearly as alarmist. Just a new business unit working out the kinks.

This is what happens when the US tries to compete with Asia on manufacturing in a free market.

These are people who want that job to exist, but are unwilling to work for the pay and conditions necessary for that job to exist.

TSMC knew all of this and came here anyways...

The us does not offer competitive infrastructure to allow for those kind of job conditions. Working 10-12 hours means you need either good super reliable child care or a spouse that does not work. The us does not offer the same level of reliable public services as Taiwan does for example

> This is what happens when the US tries to compete with Asia on manufacturing in a free market.

Does you definition of free market come from the "you'll work as much as I need you to if you want to eat" camp or the "if you want me to work bad enough, you'll pay me what I ask and negotiate the hours I am willing to work for you" camp?

Free market is the ability to choose from either camp, with majority picking the former.

it implies a perception of what it means to be governable to one group of people.

Their version of governable seems to mean compliant.

It's not inherently good or bad but it is a particular perspective that I can't see working well in some cultures.

Compliant means showing up on time and working per the agreed upon terms.

Compliant does not mean accepting piss poor pay and poor work life balance.

exactly...compliant is a two way street.

Compliance assumes there is an underlying agreement or need to comply.

Characterizing TSMC not being able to find sufficient people to accept their working conditions/pay as "US workers not being compliant" is a meaningless use of the word compliant in this context.

I'm talking about the article, I have little to no insight on TSMC beyond this article which says things I find to be highly suspect.

there is an underlying agreement...just because it isn't directly stated doesn't make them not real. Social contracts arise from cultural norms and very much are a thing.

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