Ask HN: How to take first steps to escape burnout?

I feel you Man! There are no quick answers but there certainly is a "Discipline" which if adopted can effect change.

First off, DON'T quit your job without having another already lined up. "A Bird in Hand is worth two in the Bush" and all that.

The "Discipline" comes from the "Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" which you can freely adapt to your life, like so;

  - Yamas - Regulate your interaction with the external environment. Change what you can and ignore (completely from your mind) what you can't. Make a list of both.
  - Niyamas - Setup personal habits to automate your daily needs. These are things like maintaining fixed work hours, eating at proper time etc. Make a list to follow.
  - Asanas - Daily Physical exercise (whatever suits you).
  - Pranayama - Daily Breathing exercise (learn to slow down your breathing and breath more deeply)
  - Pratyahara - Practice withdrawing your mind from unnecessary things.
  - Dharana - Practice repeatedly focusing on one thing.
  - Dhyana - As a consequence of the above, Concentration on the object of study arises and the mind becomes steady.

Note that the above listed activities must proceed in parallel and not sequential.

You have to Act and Do and not merely Read and Think. But the latter provides the fuel for the former. So in that spirit read and adapt what you need from Yoga and Western Psychology: A Comparison by Geraldine Coster - https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.189086

> First off, DON'T quit your job without having another already lined up. "A Bird in Hand is worth two in the Bush" and all that.

I would very much recommend against that. If you are burnt out, learning a new place of work and new collegues, new goals, etc. aren't going to give you opportunity for restitution.

Quit, with the only plan to not have a plan for 3 months. Then after 3 months, you can begin thinking about making a plan.

this is purely a question of being able to afford it. To just quit, you should be able to afford living costs not just for 3 Months, but rather a year or so just in case you need more rest, and/or your search for a new job takes longer.

edit: didn't see it in OP's post, he's got the money. so maybe its a way for him

I disagree. You should line up a job with a start date that gives you a short break. At least for me, the biggest part of burnout is that you don't have hope. Why should I try hard if it's not rewarded? Why should I learn this new tech thing if I use the knowledge only once and then throw it away? You need that knowledge that the next job will actually be better, and to do that you need it lined up.

“First off, DON'T quit your job without having another already lined up.”

IMO, there’s really no right or wrong answer here. It depends on so many things. Most of all the economical situation, and the risk appetite of the person in question. Some people would never quit a job before they have a new one lined up. That’s fine. It’s not some universal law of nature though that you should never do that. It’s just a preference. Which is all right. People have different preferences.

The answer to your situation is the one you choose, and not choosing anything is a choice.

I’m in my late 30s and basically unemployable in any traditional sense. I’ve never held a professional developer role, but I have played one as “consultant” and now I play it again as an “independent developer.”

With two years of savings you have almost no excuse. Just don’t burn a bridge. Don’t be too honest. Ask for a 6 month leave of absence (quit if they won’t give it), create an account on Upwork and set your rate a bit north of your regional average. Pick a project that’ll take a week and SAY NO to projects that smell funny. If you say yes to everything you won’t know what you like until you say no.

And don’t work too hard. Save some brain cycles for cooking, for exercise. And don’t be afraid to work a weekend or evening because hey, each day is the “same” and it’s now up to you when a day is “special.”

p.s. For context, once you have kids there will be weekends where you look forward to Monday morning because … they go to daycare. Really, daycare lets me be a great parent. It concentrates your patience and love - and you should treat “work” the same way, with patience and love.

Can you find projects on Upwork at regional rates if all of your experience so far is private work for corporations?

Sure. Why not? If you can write a resume and interview for a full-time job then why not do the same for something short-term that ends/finishes with less risk for both parties…

My experience with Upwork is that the market is flooded with low quality providers from the third-world such that it's impossible to earn a living EU or US wage.

Yup, the same experience for me as well at least in what concerns the flood, not so sure about quality. This drags the prices down and I see many clients offering $5-$15/h for short-medium term jobs.

You have done that yourself?

“Ask for a 6 month leave of absence (quit if they won’t give it)”

IMO this is good advice, given that OP has 2 years of living expenses covered.

I tendered my resignation from a steady job on 2020-03-05 – without having signed on for a new one. It worked out. But having a decent pile of FU money does definitely not hurt. (Living in a place with decent CoL helps a lot, too.)

Either quit and take 3 months off before you start looking or find a new job ASAP and put your start date much later.

Life’s too short to be in the wrong job. Mental health damage takes a long time to heal so don’t let it get that bad.

Market is jumping, use the opportunity. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

This is just my opinion, no professional advice!

Quitting was the best I could do for myself. I feel like if I just quit earlier it wouldn't have messed me up even more.

If you can afford a break, do it. Breaks, relaxing, coming down and reconnecting are the most valueable things you can do to your mind.

My burnout really messed me up, I may will never fully fit into work culture again. But you know what? Life had their own plans anyway and I can't complain where I am today.

I'm glad to hear you are in therapy; that's a good start. Have you had a medical workup? Can you go to your therapist twice a week? It sounds like you have a lot to work through. Can you bring your SO to therapy at least once just to see how desperate your situation is?

I've been in a similar situation and I realized one morning, while shoveling snow, that I would prefer to shovel the whole street instead of doing what I was supposed to be doing. I found that physical activity made a big difference for me; if nothing else go for some brisk walks.

Hang in there - you can make it.

It sounds like your anxiety is triggering a fight-or-flight response. If it were me in your shoes, I would tell my manager about the amount of anxiety you're experiencing and your desire to fix it, and then take the next week off or a 4 day weekend to try and decompress. If your manager is good and values you, they will be concerned and supportive, and you'll be able to fix the problem together.

If you aren't physically active but you're able to be, getting into an exercise routine that either involves some high intensity cardio or weight lifting would probably be help your mental state. The trick is to get out of your comfort zone and feel physically sore from it afterwards.

I felt anxious and depressed a couple years into working at SpaceX. Once I became consciously aware of it, I was able to tell my manager about it. A big part of it was poor alignment between my backlog of projects and my inherent interests. He moved mountains around so that I could work on something I was passionate about, and my last year there was a blast. I also started working out 3x a week including jogging and rock climbing, and went from being able to barely do a pull-up to do being able to do 100 in a day.

After a few years at Google I was pretty jaded. I was already working on some cool stuff and liked my immediate team. My gripes had more to do with the corporate politics, and so I decided to leave to try a scrappy startup that was desperate for my skill set.

I've been at Zipline for over 5 years now and it's turning into a big company, but I have very little to complain about. In 2020 I was having some legit panic attacks while interacting with coworkers, though. I was going into full-on fight or flight mode. That just turned out to be all the atrioventricular nerves on my heart failing at once! Getting a pacemaker and then figuring out and addressing the root cause solved that problem pretty well. Now I just suffer from the occasional blood pressure spike when coworkers say or do something silly, like at any company. :-)

Why are you name dropping company names?

Those are just the places I've worked. Am I not allowed to speak about my personal experiences? Should I have said "at a high stress rocket company", and "at a FAANG company"? I thought it was relevant and interesting since SpaceX generally ranks high for burnout, and Google is generally considered a silicon valley ideal for comfort, but in my experience it was easier to find a sustainable balance at SpaceX than Google.

Instead of leaving the job, just try doing it less well for a while.

If your other options are unemployment or destruction, then why not keep getting paid while you spend more time focused on yourself?

Do you work from home? Set a timer and work 25% - 50% fewer hours each day than you do now. Figure out if devoting as much time and energy as you do actually improves your output. I highly doubt it does. You're probably destroying yourself for 5% more productivity in the end. Work much less and I doubt you will see your output drop significantly.

Spend the extra time each day exercising, cooking, and socializing. Start a hobby that involves socializing like playing music or sports.

After that, if you feel better, reevaluate whether you want to leave or stay.

Get a therapist as soon as you can. They can help you reason through this and come up with a strategy to resolve it.

My burn out cost me a job and my confidence. It takes a long time to recover.

I was quite burned out by the end of this last summer. It was part work, part pandemic parenting but I was done in a way that I've never experienced before. I would open my laptop and just stare at the screen like the characters had no meaning. Half the time I would just close it and lay down. I had been flirting with it for many months but it really hit hard in July/August.

The thing that really helped for me was knowing I had control over the situation. Like you, we had enough saved so I could take a long period of time off and my S.O. supported it (maybe start with that). I started taking steps to leave but thought that it would be better to start with a big block of time off. I ended up being able to take ~6 weeks off total from October - today and that helped in a big way. I'm not fully recovered but I'm in a much better place.

I think feeling trapped in a situation is either the main issue or a massive aggravator. Once you discover and accept how much control you truly have, you're able to make better decisions, including GTFO if you need to.

At times like this, determination is going to separate the good version of yourself from the great version of yourself.

Burning out is hard to recover from (if at all). You've already done quite a bit by being able to name it. There's the old saying of "name it to tame it" and you're well on your way.

Now you should focus on what is triggering your emotions of feeling this way. Is it work? It is not fulfilling your purpose? Is it something else entirely?

The time to work on yourself is now. Give yourself the extra time to recover and come back stronger than ever. Come up with a plan and execute! You've got this!

This is coming from a person who was in the same boat, but decided to move forward because everything pointed to my legacy at my job being unsustainable and I'm eager for something new after having a job for 10 years and starting interviews again.

I was profoundly burned out in early 2021. I almost rage quit about 50 times, life lost all joy, dark thoughts, the works.

Wife told me to quit which took a huge psychological weight off my chest. Didn’t end up quitting, but told my boss I was burned out and took two weeks off to rest. Enrolled in therapy and started taking an SSRI for the first time in my life. Project From Hell wrapped up and the work stress dissipated.

A year later and I am much better but still recovering.

I hope you can get your partner’s support to quit, even if you don’t go through with it.

I see lots of long-term advice, so I'm going to skip that. I also believe that any answers have to come from within. You have to deal with the consequences of any action (including inaction), so I think it would be best if you come up with answers yourself.

Therapy is probably a great start. Give yourself some credit for that, because not everyone takes that step themselves[1]!

Please try to give yourself space. The urge to run-away is strong, but also temporary. Listen to what it's trying to tell you - it might tell you what aspects of your current situation are causing the most stress - but don't act impulsively. Try to make decisions when you're calm and have some perspective. To get that perspective, be kind to yourself, take some time off if you can.

Don't feel guilty about the things you're currently not doing. You might feel guilty for not coding at night or participating in household chores. That's normal. You're ill, so your priority is to get better. When you feel better, you'll be able to learn any skills much better[2].

Hang in there, be patient, and one day you'll probably notice all this shit was just fertilizer for growth.

[1] I've had to order my wife not to go to work, before she admitted she was burned out. She was crying at night because of work. [2] I had a bore-out in a previous job, causing me to lose any confidence in my abilities. Once I felt better I improved my coding skills by taking on interesting projects and things started to spiral upward again.

I am no expert by any means, but just skimming to your problem description I see two "pain points": 1. Your job - no fulfillment - just money. 2. Your spouse - no trust - lack of compassion.

For the looks of it you are stuck in two places of frustration. Find adequate therapy, speak with people who you trust and have respect for. If after this solution is not present - exclude the two points of frustration from your life and restart, rebuild and enjoy life. Wish you luck.

> 2. Your spouse - no trust - lack of compassion.

You can't know that without more context. Things aren't that simple in a tight relationship environment, and it's not some random person on the interwebs that can make out such a conclusion with a mere block of text from the OP.

I agree. That's why, I suggested a therapist as a first step. Without more context every advice is wrong. But as a general rule of thumb, identifying, reducing or eliminating the pain points works. I know this from my limited experience with two burnouts so far.

It is hard to give advice here, that would really work (the reality of a stranger is more complex than they could convey in a few paragraphs).

You could quite your job, find new energy and a new job and go ahead. But depending on the circumstances and your personality this might stress you out even more.

You could find something (hobby, career outlook, mission, ...) that gives you a goal you really want to work towards, but again I cannot tell whether your circumstances would allow you to do such a thing next to work.

What is clear however is that your work is draining you and you need to do something about it. Working less, talking to a superior (or writing them if that is easier), try to fix things with the collegues (e.g. by switching tasks), but maybe there is no hope for this job and quiting is the best way forward.

If you don't do sports already, I would start doing something. We IT people tend to burn a lot energy with our brain but often lack the body movement our body evolutionarily would expect. I am running soley for that purpose and it helps me to stay focused and with myself. Maybe give it (or cycling, swimming, ..) a try

Can I suggest that you take a "vacation" by half assing your job instead of leaving it? Maybe switch teams at your company so people don't have expectations for you. You know the lazy people on your team who do 10% the work you do, are always missing deadlines, and leave at 2pm? Be like them. Make work your lowest priority. Don't do anything you don't have to. Don't do that extra code review. Don't voluntarily join a design review. Worst case your manager will talk to you about it. But I bet you'll be surprised with how much you can get away with.

A more radical option that could be good is to take a leave of absence. You can probably do this unpaid for 3 months or you might be able to ask your therapist to give you a reason for a medical leave which would let you get 50% of your income via FMLA. The nice thing about a leave of absence is that you get time to breath and establish your personal needed and you will probably land on a different team or at least rejoin your team with reset delivery expectations.

> My significant other doesn't support me leaving my job without another one lined up ...

Some cultures (at least east asian ones, according to my east asian friends) do value the "job security" aspect over most everything else.

eg "It's your job as a provider to ensure we're secure, and nothing else matters more"

It _seems_ to be part of the "is this person going to be a good parent for future children, giving them a stable home?" mind set. (best wording I can think of atm)

It doesn't really seem to be compatible with taking any kind of employment risk. :( :( :(

If your significant other can't understand you _need_ to take a break, that in itself is going to create more stress. Hopefully you can figure out a positive solution, together. :)

Not this will help you much at all, but I'm in a similar position. The pandemic has exerted some pretty unexpected effects on me career-wise and even though I enjoy the freedom of working from home, my ambition and productivity have taken a hit. I still do my best to make sure I am not taking advantage of my employer, after all, they pay me to do a job, but my lack of enthusiasm and drive this past year or so are very uncharacteristic as I too have a history of exceeding expectations. I don't have any advice, just letting you know I feel your pain.

I am exactly in the same place (burnout) and here are a few things that have started to help me

1. Daily Yoga practice. (One session in morning and another one in evening. I generally do Yin Yoga in the evenings and it seems to help release a lot of stress). You can find lot of good Yin yoga videos on Youtube.

2. Write a Journal. Try to figure out your deepest motivations. Why did you act in ways that lead to burnout. Try to write about how you can bring back balance.

3. Have a balanced work schedule.

Also, don't forget.. "A job is just a job and it does not define you. You always have a choice"

Sometimes the same job but somewhere else can be the answer. The first step I took in the past was to line up a similar job elsewhere. If that fails it’s bought you at least 6-12 months of trying it out before the realisation happens and in the meantime you can make a backup plan of actually leaving the industry if you want or need to.

I’ve also left jobs without one lined up and have to say it has not gone well for me, perhaps if I wasn’t burnt out I would have interviewed better, but I’m a firm believer now of lining up a job first.

Good luck!!

Wow, sounds a lot like my situation. Except I don't make good money and my wife supports me quitting even though it would be financially impossible.

I would just say continue to slog on with your current job until they fire you. That's my plan.

I sort of agree that even if you have money saved you shouldn't quit without something lined up. The main part of burn out is a lack of hope. You need to believe that the next job will actually be better than the current one. I lack this hope because my jobs have been progressively worse.

Can you find little things in the day-to-day that are exciting by setting the bar lower? Can you pick up hobbies outside of work like wood working, reading non-fiction, or baking/cooking? Can you come up with a personal roadmap, one that emphasizes personal learning/improvement outside of work?

Your job will always be at least somewhat out of your control, and burnout can come from feeling helpless in a situation you don't like. It's time to take control of the things you can actually control.

Start to work 4/5ths instead of full-time and use the day off for training.

Try to enjoy your free time instead of stressing up and make a goal to work to for the next 2 months ( eg. Interview preparation or interviews). Or talk about it with your bosses of they are open to it.

There's always a possibility that the next job is similar, so keep that in mind. If you're current job respects your "off" hours, than that's already more than a lot of other jobs.

Good luck!

Note : I'm no expert.

I am sorry. The sooner you act the better it would be. I suggest you talk to your manager first. He/she should support you in recovering from burnout. You manager might help you get a long vacation or unpaid timeoff to recover first. If that’s not happening, maybe consider switching teams, then switching companies. I wish you feel better soon.

Have you considered taking a 2-3 week holiday? Go somewhere new, do physical activities that you might enjoy. Stay away from digital media, etc. Do not work on any side-projects, etc.

If you end up like @quercusa then you will know what changes to make. If not, you might find yourself in a better place to either continue with the job or look for another one.

You need a different project to recover. It probably needs to be greenfield. Try to see if there is any opportunity in your company, some projects that are in the drawer. Once you find a project you are keen to work on, you will gradually recover and be able to work on any project because you will restore the confidence in yourself.

Take three months off. Pack a backpack. Go on the road. Sleep ALOT.

Meditation will solve the mental problems. But almost everyone doesn't know how to do it right.

What’s the right way in your view? My biggest issue is dedicating time to such a practice, so I was going to consider some of the popular apps that do a good job of nudging you. That said, I’m fairly certain they aren’t faithful to the cultural practices they’re co-opting from and I’m curious if there’s a better way.

when you can enter into samadhi state then you are doing it right for the first step. How to do it is hard to describe in this comment. It takes time to understand first step.

Quit asap. Get the s/o onboard or get them offboard.

What a simplistic view. I see this sentiment so often in hn and Reddit threats. If something is going wrong, yes the nuclear option might be the one needed at some point. But burning all your bridges (including your S/O) and running, isn't a great first idea.

It's 40 hours a week