Ask HN: Electic car (new) in Italy for 3000€ only. State pays 85%: is it sane? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Electic car (new) in Italy for 3000€ only. State pays 85%: is it sane?

33 pointsoriettaxx27 comments

Two friends of mine just got an electric car in Italy: the car cost 21.000€, but they received:

* 6.000€ from the State for buying the car

* 4.000€ additional from the State for having destroyed their old car (see note)

* another 8.000€ from their Region (Veneto)

So the final price for a brand new electric car was just 3.000€.

I understand the state is trying not to 'blablabla' on environment with these so called "Eco-Bonus", but does this make sense?

It is a lot of money! and it is still just a car (it's not ....a scholarship)

Sources:

* https://www.automobile.it/magazine/acquisto-auto/incentivi-auto-12762

* https://www.regione.veneto.it/documents/10709/11697038/Dgr_491_21_AllegatoA.pdf/40790a28-d634-44ad-9ae4-470b5dde2361

note: the marked value of their used car (now destroyed) was about 1000€, but you get the 'bonus' no matter the value.

View on HN

Yes, the intensives handed out are a bit out of hand. Specially if you can stack them. You can literally buy EV in New Jersey and resell while making a profit from stack.

Its pretty clear that there is very little overall strategy, its just a bunch of politicians doing one thing or another depending on the situation. And it happens on all levels. And its mostly about retoric and what you can sell, not a smart strategy.

The government could do much better things for the environment and spend the money much better for the EV revolution. Making gas more expensive but specially making new gas car more expensive. Doing large scale investment and financing in local and green EV supply chain. Helping to set up a EV charging network (depends on how the nation organizes streets and highways).

Also I think helping people buy cheaper EV makes much more sense. Rich people shouldn't get help buying Model S or Porsche. And that number should go down over time, 5-10 years ago intensives for an expensive car, to support the technology.

I think a lot of it has gotten out of hand (here in the US). Tax credits for tons of different things. Complicated tax planning and filing. Some of the things don't make sense (except for special interests) or are counter productive. So you want people to save the environment so you help them buy an electric car, yet you provide incentives to have more children which will increase consumption (which our economy is built on) and lead to more environmental impact...

The masses want more and more without paying for it themselves. It's convenient to have someone else pay for it rather than discuss the underlying issue that the policy is (poorly) addressing.

children are future taxpayers, god help us if we can’t figure out how to make an income without carbon emissions

Yes, maybe. But we also shouldn't require infinite population growth.

of course it’s insane, there’s nothing environmental about a thousand pound battery, it is a subsidy to corporations, sing me a new one

It's insane because you don't need that much of an incentive. They'll burn all their money on early birds who learn about this ridiculous deal, then they'll wake up, realise they've spent too much and then cancel all the incentives.

Exactly what happened in the UK with the solar feed-in tariff.

It's not insane because large batteries are environmentally unfriendly. Nobody is disputing that. Of course they are. They're just less environmentally unfriendly than burning petrol.

I only consume two thousand pounds of gasoline every year instead of one thousand pounds of battery per vehicle. It's much better.

How can you still be an anthropic climate change denier in 2022?

Batteries might not be eco-friendly, but they are reciclable and meanwhile global warming is the more urgent and grave issue.

The alternative is you are a troll.

What's an "anthropic" climate change denier and how is the gp being it by saying this is a subsidy to corporations?

And for that matter where does the power for all the electric cars come from?

It's clear that the best ways to combat this issue lie in consuming less (also by creating better lasting /more easily repairable products). Instead poorer countries & people get fucked over due to "green rules" and higher prices in energy.

I don't see how poor people being unable to warm their houses during winter helps save the environment at all. They are part of the environment as well.

As long as people aren't interested in changing their lifestyle and limiting consumption and corporations are only geared towards more profit the environment will turn to ash.

The parent comment doesn't deny climate change. Cars (even electric ones) are quite terrible for the environment: huge roads everywhere, each one only serves a few people, etc.

Public transit infrastructure is a much better option for saving the environment and society. Good public transit is such a pleasure to use.

Please note that "recyclable" does not mean that it can be recycled (now), i.e. while in theory we know how to recycle batteries, the processes are currently non-existant or the infrastructures/plants to do that kind of recycling simply do not exist (yet) or are way too few (and far, so you have to calculate also the transport/shipping).

I was certain you looked through his comments and that it was obvious, but when I did the same I can't say I believe that's the case ...

Destroying a perfectly usable thing is insanely anti-environmental [1]. The rule is: reduce, reuse, recycle and not: just destroy it and make a new one…

[1] Even if the car was emitting co2, there’s still people buying ice cars - and now, the factories have to make an additional ice car because we scrapped a perfectly servicable one.

what is an "ice car" ?

Internal Combustion Engine

omg :)

thanks

If the car junking is anything like the Cash for Clunkers program it's probably a big waste of money, see https://fee.org/articles/cash-for-clunkers-was-a-complete-fa...

To be honest, that is I think what is going wrong in the EU. Italy is kind of doing it right, since taking credits will not really affect it's own credit ranking. Under such conditions (lets say zero sum game between states) the best strategy is to spend as much money as possible.

Loss leader to try to prime the market and justify massive grid spending to support pre permissioned, ultimately remotely controlled/driven BEV travel imo

What model car did they buy?

it's a Dacia (I think the "Spring")

and, by the way, I see that car can even cost less... so (o.m.g.) if you get the cheap version you would probably have it at no cost!!

How long did they have to keep the used car that was destroyed?

they had to give to the dealer the car they had (the used one): this car will be officially destroyed (I guess it will be done right away): sorry I was not clear: I mean

they give you the Bonus ($$$) if you destroy your old car.

hacking compute

It _was_ alot of money, but maybe not anymore. That is the effect of all this government largess. The value of a certain sum of money is dropping.

It’s a problem with social systems/big governments/EU in general and I see it happening all the time: take from one person and give to another, without meaningful justification.

Sometimes even the state defaults and other states have to bail it out (eg, German taxpayers pay for Italian cars).

Of course some degree of government involvement is required to address externalities. But this seems mindless spending without a discused plan.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com