Winnie the Pooh to Enter the Public Domain in 2022
comicbook.com
comicbook.com
Oh bother.
"When Khitruk visited the Disney Studios, Wolfgang Reitherman, the author of Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day that won the 1968 Academy Award for Best Animated Short Film, told him that he liked the Soviet version better than his own." [1]
Winnie the Pooh (1969) in Russian with English subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCXegrxlKbI
[1] Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie-the-Pooh_(1969_film)
The closest equivalent to current television’s programming is the Australian show Bluey.
Took less than 30 seconds.
I'm serious. Try find it if you didn't saw it
This is a terrible conceptual mistake on the part of copyright law.
“Among other copied elements, the Springer novels [on which Netflix’s film is based] make extensive infringing use of Conan Doyle’s transformation of Holmes from cold and critical to warm, respectful, and kind in his relationships.” [1]
This is essentially the entire substance of the lawsuit: that creating a new sister character that Holmes felt affection for infringed on their copyright of a single passage in one of the later Doyle stories where Holmes expressed concern for Watson who had gotten shot.
Netflix settled.
[1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6956021-Sherlock.htm...
"When Conan Doyle came back to Holmes in the Copyrighted Stories between 1923 and 1927, it was no longer enough that the Holmes character was the most brilliant rational and analytical mind. Holmes needed to be human. The character needed to develop human connection and empathy."
This seems surprising given:
"I fear that it is at a cost which will give pain to my friends, and especially, my dear Watson, to you." - The Final Problem (1894)
"“My dear Watson,” said the well-remembered voice, “I owe you a thousand apologies. I had no idea that you would be so affected.” - The Empty House (1903)
“Upon my word, Watson!” said Holmes at last with an unsteady voice, “I owe you both my thanks and an apology. It was an unjustifiable experiment even for one’s self, and doubly so for a friend. I am really very sorry.”“You know,” I answered with some emotion, for I have never seen so much of Holmes’s heart before, “that it is my greatest joy and privilege to help you.” - The Devil's Foot (1910)
For instance, look at Dmitri Glukhovsky and his Metro books - be basically allowed anyone to write any books placed within the same universe, still using the "Metro" logo and characters. Dozens of other books appeared, telling the tales of other metro systems elsewhere in the world and how they've dealt with the apocalypse - but the point is, all those other books have only increased the popularity of the original, and expanded it.
The other good example, weirdly, was always Star Wars books - especially pre-Disney star wars was very lenient with what stories could be told, and unless it was just straight up smut it would be allowed - as a result, star wars fans had hundreds(thousands?) Of books telling stories with their favourite characters and new ones but taking place in the universe they loved. Yes Lucas took a cut, but in general you could just write a book about Han Solo and it would be fine.
That's how copyright should work. Why not let other people tell stories with Pooh and the rest?
Here is the but: imagine someone were to publish a story set in your universe where suddenly the nazis took over and everyone liked it.
This is an extreme point, but it's one reason not to allow everyone to use your trademark without prior asking. Because maybe you're not okay with that AND suddenly your a bit famous works are in the same pot with something you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole aaaand your sales go down.
Today's outrage culture could cancel you, even if you did nothing wrong.
In a better universe I am all with you and I personally would feel honored and flattered if other people would use my created worlds for their works
Going back to my example - among those thousands of star wars books, there are some which are incredibly bad nowadays, sexist, racist, or just pure trash that came and went. I suspect its impact on the actual Star Wars the franchise was zero.
>>Today's outrage culture could cancel you, even if you did nothing wrong.
Maybe, but I don't want to live in a world where worrying about it restricts my choices. If someone wrote a book where the Pooh is now a dictator running a fascist hundred mile forest, and it somehow sold a million copies......then I'm going to laugh at the idiots calling for the original to be cancelled. They shouldn't be given any authority over this, outrage on twitter is cheap.
Also, you don't want to live in such a culture. That is fine. You may create something beautiful and then "donate" it to the public domain.
The choice is yours entirely.
Again, as a consumer I totally understand where you're coming from. As a producer I would think differently (that's simply empathy though, I am not a successful producer)
Whatever valid arguments might exist to restrict speech through copyright, sales going down is not one of them. Otherwise you could lawfully prohibit negative reviews.
And that was my point, not sales going down on their own.
Negative reviews have nothing to do with someone else being able to take e.g. James Bond and making him a homosexual or taking Conan the Barbarian and making him a woman or a sidekick etc.
Drastic or even small changes can always be unpopular and affect the whole franchise. If said franchise is no longer under your control alone, this is an argument pro copyright from the viewpoint of a creator.
Think about e.g. Warcraft. It was supposed to be a Warhammer game. The license was "revoked", so they spun up their own story/world and created a successful franchise.
The thing is, I totally am opposed to copyright and patents, yet I can see where they are coming from and I can see reasons for them.
It is the later extensions that have perverted the concept.
> Prior to the statute's enactment in 1710, copying restrictions were authorized by the Licensing of the Press Act 1662. These restrictions were enforced by the Stationers' Company, a guild of printers given the exclusive power to print—and the responsibility to censor—literary works.
"Licensing of the Press" allowed to control who could print, by lawful threat of violence, and that enabled censorship of ideas. Copyright sweetened that deal to those who owned printing presses: enforcement of scarcity enabled a business model where good content could be kept expensive and money is funneled to the publisher who owns the exclusive right to make copies. For this they agreed to do censorship.
The argument that copyright is a right of the content creators, who were mostly dependent on patrons, and that those creators could only be paid fairly by the publishers if their product was exclusive, was peddled back then and swayed some of the intelligentsia to support the concept, but this was not the core ideal. At the beginning copyright was about entrenching a small circle of collaborators, who got the right to copy, and violently removing the means of production of those printing revolutionary thoughts.
They included it from the launch of iBooks (now called Apple Books) in April 2010 until sometime in mid-2011. In mid-2011 it became a paid book for new iBooks users but remained in the libraries of existing users.
I noticed a couple years or so ago that it was no longer in my library. I don't know when it disappeared because I only rarely use iBooks, but everything else I remember getting in that first year is still there.
Checking my account for ebooks on the account that are not on my Mac, I don't see it, so it isn't the case that I somehow just happened to delete it from my Mac. Nor is it on the list of hidden books.
I'd have expected that if Apple had deleted it from existing libraries when they lost the rights to give away free copies that would have made the news but I've found no mention of that. In fact, all I found was just the opposite--apparently there were people who didn't want it in their library and were having trouble figuring out how to get rid of it! [1].
[1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-do-i-delete-winnie-...
Coming out this year alone are two Alice in Wonderland themed games: Paint the Roses and Wonderland's War. Another old favorite is a simple card game called Parade.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/253759/paint-roses
Proof that forever-copyrights stifle innovation.
It's a balance. No money and people who need to eat have to dig ditches instead of creating. A hundred years of monopoly when fourteen would have been enough and you're constraining third parties more than you're providing incentive to the original author.
I do think the original 14 years is a trifle short. Maybe 14 years, with a cheap 14 year extension, and then one more very expensive 14 year extension. Then you can get long-lived film franchises, etc, while works that are commercially irrelevant enter the PD relatively soon.
Which is why no creative works exist from before the invention of copyright laws. Walk into any library, concert hall, art museum or theater and you won’t find any works from before copyright.
/s
I don’t see this being tenable, not without a frankly absurd loss of diversity in writing.
* ~44k writers, with $50k wages. Note that this is below the current median earnings for authors.
Yes, not all art or literature would stop, but the number of people who could pursue it as a profession would drop precipitously.
That said it might not lead to the maximum benefits, but it should lead to the maximum diversity.
Expect the furries to have lots of fun with this. Is that innovation? Things are always more nuanced than they appear.
Well, yes. People associate innovation with good new ideas, but the process inevitably involves a lot of bad ones.
Look at fairy tales, Robin Hood stories or Aesop's fables. Not every adaptation is good, but every now and then, you end up with a classic.
What's annoying is how often companies like Disney take a public domain work, make an interesting derivative and then turn around and lobby to make it impossible for their derivatives to enter the public domain. They did, after all, benefit from the same public domain...
What public domain enables is for-profit adaptations of Winnie the Pooh.
Will people be able to make Mickey cartoons independent of and without the blessing of Disney? Will they be able to sell merchandise? Market themselves using the Mouse? Incorporate the character in their logos?
Does this only apply to the "Steamboat Willie" version of Mickey? Can one use artistic license to get closer to modern Mickey without running afoul of modern copyright?
Pooh is one thing, but Mickey going public domain will be monumental.
Some level of remixing/reediting the movie is probably OK, but I'm not sure where the line gets drawn
Do you have reason to believe history won’t repeat itself this time?
I think the generally held view of the major content owners is that the current (absurdly protracted) limits are good enough.
It's the easiest lobbying in the world to extend copyright terms. There are waaay more important one-issue topics on the table than to worry about mickey mouse.
If Disney wants to extend it, they will. And if they do there might be 15 seconds of bad press, then the next big story will come along...
But maybe none of it matters anyway. As tech improves, the cost to create approaches zero.
The cost to create will be essentially zero, but the cost to create something that does not already infringe copyright is going to be astronomical since it’s inversely proportional.
Imagine if Disney could push a button and create 100 billion characters. You’d probably be infringing the moment you draw your first concept. “20000 of our works have that exact same ‘distinctive’ hairstyle. Cease and desist.”
We’re now at 70 years after the creator’s death, and there’s just far too much money being made. They come up with terms like “modern copyright” and use words like “protection” and “investment”, but at the end of the day it’s big companies using whatever leverage they can in order to stay big.
If someone knows what I’m talking about, please cite. I do not have enough memory shreds for a good Google search. I think it was a “mild” coercion to “bring other countries up to date”, talking about how artists were essentially being robbed in countries where the copyright had not fallen in line with this 50-70 years past the creator’s death.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21302942/netflix-enola-ho...
Which is to say, if you happen to put a red shirt on your Pooh rip-off, it's very likely Disney can, and will, sue you. This alone means that if you want to adapt Pooh (or Steamboat Willie), you probably need to go a very different direction than Disney has, such that the character is not likely to be recognizable as the same.
That said, I'm looking forward to a potential noir detective reimagining of Pooh. I hope they don't do the zombie thing though; that feels overdone by now.
Note that Mickey Mouse is trademarked and will undoubtedly still be trademarked come 2024.
The stories and illustrations will be copyright free, but the names of the characters (certainly the titular character) are covered by trademarks.
I'm no IP expert, so I don't know the repercussions of putting out a book titled Winnie The Pooh containing the public domain stories. Certainly you'd be in the clear if it was titled Fat, Honey-Loving Bear Stories.
This doesn't make much sense. If the stories enter public domain, they enter in their entirety.
Trademarks (usually) don't have such a broad application as "this name X is forbidden for use everywhere forever and ever".
You will definitely be able to re-print and re-use the original text, the original name and possibly the original illustrations illustrations.
It's possible you won't be able to use certain name combinations, illustrations etc. in merchandising, movies etc. because Disney trademarked those.
that's nice for anyone who wants to publish books I guess, or for downloaders of Project Gutenberg material, but I don't think that is really what people care for who argue about copyright being too long etc.
I guess what people really want is something that is anyway covered by fair use but people are afraid to do because big corporate lawyers. But I guess if the characters are trademarked you still have to worry about big corporate lawyers.
Anyway, Pooh is only copyright free in US, still under copyright in UK - unsure if copyright free in EU, assume not.
https://publicdomaincharacters.tumblr.com/post/6601842354114...
In the USA all character names and book titles are public domain anyway - but these can still be protected under trademark (The name being public domain doesn't mean that anyone can create derivative works though - these are still protected).
For instance, the name "Mickey Mouse" is in the public domain (i.e. someone can say it without it being licensed) while stories about Mickey Mouse are still under copyright, and you cannot use 'Mickey Mouse' in your own advertising or to sell a product as it is still a trademark.
As another example, I can create the character "Dude The Donkey", own the trademark "Dude The Donkey" and also write a story about Dude The Donkey that I put into the public domain (e.g. CC0), however the fact I have written a story and put it into the public domain doesn't mean that someone else is allowed to sell "Dude The Donkey" branded merchandise - as I have a trademark on that.
(This is just my understanding, IANAL)
But... with 2 years left there's plenty of time for legislation to be updated.
That kind of thing doesn’t always work though. For example, Lego has repeatedly attempted to trademark their brick shape in various venues after the patents expired. Their many resulting lawsuits against Mega Bloks have (to my knowledge) been generally unsuccessful, because the functional elements of an interlocking brick design turn out not to be trademarkable.
Unlike copyrights or patents, trademark rights last for as long as they are used continuously to identify a source of goods or services. So, not quite forever and ever, but as long as they are used continuously by the same source.
You're right that it will be fine to use the names of the characters as long as you don't create a likelihood of confusion with a senior user of the same or similar trademark.
If you're publishing the original book, you'll be able to use the original title because you'll be using the name not as a trademark, but as a descriptive term for the book.
For derivative works, you will probably want to make up your own name that you can use as a unique trademark to identify your derivative. (See, e.g., the recent Sherlock Holmes derivative works: Sherlock, Elementary, Enola Holmes.)
You seem to be arguing that it would be descriptive fair use, but the probability of confusion prong of the descriptive fair use test seems likely to be problematic, especially in an active franchise with newer works under the trademark that are actually exclusive to the trademark owner by copyright as well.
Personally, I put the responsibility for this on Disney: they have been lobbying for copyright extensions consistently, and do big pushes when Mickey is close to becoming public domain.
It’s now 70 years after the creator’s death.
If I use my own artwork, I can or cannot use all the character names and attributes? Like Tigger is a Tiger that bounces.... or Rabbit is...a Rabbit... Pooh's a bear....etc..
You wouldn’t be able to use Tigger, because that character was introduced in The House on Pooh Corner, whose copyright doesn’t expire until 2024.
https://www.amazon.nl/Winnie-Pooh-Management-Important-intro...
(especially the most shallow and common kind)