Comment by nivenkos | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nivenkos | Hacker News Reader

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For the younger generations, a sort of stability.

House prices : salary ratios are much worse in the EU (because salaries are so much worse in general), and housing is much smaller (no room for hobbies, home gym, usually no AC, etc. - which is awful during the recent lockdowns). Gas/diesel prices are much worse too (and driver training, car insurance, road tax, etc.) so car ownership is much more expensive (and severely regressing compared to prior generations).

Electricity is much more expensive, so is food, vehicles, electronics, pretty much anything you can think of. Salaries are lower and taxes on income (not property/inheritance, etc.) are much worse. And all of this is set to get worse next year with prices, inflation and income taxes going up and salaries not shifting (there has been no "Great Resignation" here).

If you want to see the death of the middle class, just look at Europe. With low home ownership, prospects are much bleaker for any sort of retirement too.

On average the US has higher prices than most EU countries: https://data.oecd.org/price/price-level-indices.htm.

This is also true if you look at average prices vs average income (though that’s a really crude metric): https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php.

Houses are larger, on average, in the US, but I’m not sure that’s a meaningful comparison; houses tend to be larger in New Jersey than in New York City, but I’d rather live in NYC. ;)

It is true that net income after taxes and transfers is higher in the US (https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/), but it’s important to look at it after taxes and (market value of) public services (“transfers”), not merely after-tax; in many EU countries taxes include the cost of health care, whereas in the US healthcare is largely employer-provided and costs ~2x and is half as good (measured by outcomes).

All that is to say it’s complicated. The US is by most measures richer than EU countries, and prices are generally commensurately higher.

But I do think it’s strange to conclude from this that the EU is seeing “the death of the middle class”; the metric I most associate with that is income or wealth inequality—a shrinking middle relative to the rich and poor—and by common metrics like GINI or top percentile share of wealth (or by percentage of the population living in poverty: https://www.statista.com/statistics/233910/poverty-rates-in-...), the US tends to do substantially worse than the EU states.

> so car ownership is much more expensive

That's kind of the point. A significant part of my hometown takes a bus to work and shops in a walking distance from home. There's just not that much need for the cars in the first place.

> usually no AC

Among other generalisations, this is the most striking. Where in the EU? Due to the climate, I don't think anyone in my hometown has any need for AC. On the other hand, every block of flats has hydronic heating which regarding comfort and cost is way better than what is common in other countries.

Things like that are just not comparable at a scale of a continent.

This sounds like a very US minded view on EU. As an EU who has been to the US a couple of times I could write the exact same piece with the opposite conclusion.

Housing is smaller but one doesn't live in a suburb, cars are more expensive but that's the idea, fuck cars. The one that stood out to me the most is "so is food". What? American supermarkets are cra-zy expensive to me.

I'm not saying you're wrong but that both our analyses are probably nonsensical.

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