Carol Bartz: Yahoo "f---ed me over" | Hacker News Reader

Carol Bartz: Yahoo "f---ed me over"

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34 pointstaylorbuley29 comments

Any (ex) CEO that doesn't know why they got fired by someone reading a lawyer's script obviously doesn't have a clue how things work. A firing of that magnitude has to go by the book, and they have to close every legal loophole they can. No personal messages, no teary goodbyes... Just a lawyer's letter.

The phonecall method seems horrible, but what was the alternative? You don't want them in the building because you don't want a scene, either from their being hysterical, or from the guards escorting them to the door. A letter could only be worse.

No, they played this by the book, and she's upset about them doing things correctly. And badmouthing them over it.

The personal insult during the phone call really shows her character.

Asking the caller why he didn't have the balls to tell her in person (a valid question) and stating that she thought he was classier do not constitute a personal insult. You're the board chair, about to execute a big decision like this, you do it in person. Being on a plane is no excuse; re-route your trip or delay the execution by 1 day until you're face-to-face. Even the most junior employees usually get fired in person. If anyone creates a scene, that's what on-site security is there for, although exchanging words behind a closed door meeting with very few people present is probably the most that would have occurred.

Fuck it, I find her candor refreshing, regardless of surrounding issues.

> Any (ex) CEO that doesn't know why they got fired by someone reading a lawyer's script obviously doesn't have a clue how things work.

I want to be clear, here: you're telling me that it is your position that someone who was CEO of Autodesk – not exactly a shareware developer or anything – served in that role for 14 years and oversaw its rise to dominance over its space... doesn't "have a clue" how things work?

Is it possible that she simply expected a little better than a phone call, given that she's the CEO of the company?

> The personal insult during the phone call really shows her character.

It does. It shows me she's a straight talker and the sort of person who expects the same from others. I like those kinds of people – with them, I always know where I stand. Fuck the phonies.

I love straight talkers.

Insults like that are not 'straight talk'. She could easily have said, "I expected better than this." It's just as straight without the personal insult.

Edit: I keep thinking about this and getting more incensed. Being abusive is not straight talking. There's no need to attack him personally. Ever. She can say that the entire company has let her down... But she can't attack him personally. Abuse like this is simply not acceptable.

And a CEO should know better.

>Insults like that are not 'straight talk'. She could easily have said, "I expected better than this."

Self-censoring is still self-censoring.

Incensed? Did someone get his fee fees hurt?

She told it like it is.

It shows me she's quick to anger and slow to control herself.

Not someone I would want to work with.

She's very good at making sure no one else will hire her.

Bartz was brought out of retirement to fix the impossible, useless mess that is Yahoo!. She's going to get a fatty severance package. I think she's going to be fine.

I see a mess where there should be none. What's the problem with these people? Firing over the phone, seeking out media attention and badmouthing your former employer... It really doesn't matter if you are the chairman of the board or the CEO, there are things you really shouldn't do.

I can't imagine even a lowly temp warrants being fired over the phone. It's just common decency. If there are security or legal concerns then film it and have a lawyer and security guard there. But doing it over the phone doesn't make Yahoo! look good, not that much of anything does anymore.

Additionally, why wasn't this one of those "resign or we'll get rid of you" situations? That's how I've seen it worked at companies I've worked at in the past. Doing it over the phone seems purposefully spiteful.

why wasn't this one of those "resign or we'll get rid of you" situations?

It was: "After Tuesday's call from Bostock, Bartz says, she had two hours to let Yahoo know whether she would resign or allow the board to fire her"

My bad!

I have seen a whole lot of this woman cussing in the news lately. The image she puts out is low class, and she didn't make the company money. It's no mystery why she was fired. There is a time and place for profanity, and it's very rarely in the professional setting.

Class has absolutely nothing to do with the use, or non-use, of profanity. And there are absolutely plenty of times when using profanity in a professional setting is fine... IMNSHO, it should be used more. Most people are too god-damned concerned with image and "political correctness" bullshit. Some candor, emotion, and openness is much appreciated by many people.

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this point. I have nothing against somebody stating their position with emotion, but this was vulgar and designed to do nothing but escalate the situation. She didn't use profanity while making a great argument, she used it to directly insult her previous employer. So things didn't work out for her at Yahoo, and she got fired on the phone - yeah, it sucks. It doesn't give her the right to act like a spoiled brat in public. I'd expect better from my children then how this woman acts in public. She should be embarrassed. If she really wanted to get back at them there was much better and more professional ways to go about it. I stand by my reasoning that this kind of vulgarity used in public should be shameful, and I'm no prude.

It doesn't give her the right to act like a spoiled brat in public.

It didn't need to, that right is innate. As is your right to voice your disapproval.

She should be embarrassed.

By whose standard? Yours? Why should she care what you (or I, or pg, or Larry Ellison, or the wino standing at the corner of 3rd and Main) thinks about what should embarrass her? Or maybe she should worry about some abstract notion like "society" or (even worse) "polite society?" Feh...

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this point.

Fair enough. Reasonable people disagree all the time.

Anyway, I'll freely admit that I'm biased towards people who do things that go "against the grain" and break the "rules". If throwing a little profanity around and escalating a situation is their thing, I support it (to a point at least). I mean, I think there's a lot to be said for the mindset of "if I think this guy is being a doofus, I'm going to say he's a doofus, and damn political correctness."

She got fired because 1) yahoo is fucked and 2) she didn't do shit to un-fuck it, and in fact fucked them even more.

Low class? That's sexist bullshit. There's plenty of men that speak exactly the same way -- starting with Larry Ellison, and go read about his behavior sometime -- yet don't get the same opprobrium. It's because she's a woman.

I wouldn't treat a male any differently. It's low class. I don't recall any major CEO's on the front page of tech sites cussing before this. Ever. It shows a poor lack of control. What is said behind doors, not to the press, is something else entirely. That's not even touching on the professionalism of publicly calling out a previous employer. Talk about burning bridges and ruining a reputation.

Talk about burning bridges and ruining a reputation.

Burning bridges isn't always a bad thing. And sometimes doing so enhances your reputation, rather than ruining it.

I'm betting a whole lot of people have more respect for Carol Bartz today, than they had yesterday, exactly because she spoke her mind, and showed some emotion and cut through the "PC" crap. At the very least, I know I do.

Joe Biden: It's a big fucking deal.

You probably should have chosen somebody who wasn't a complete douche bag to make your example. Joe Biden cussing like that makes him look like a complete fool. I am all for cussing when situation is right, but this (and Biden's mockery) is just vulgar for the sake of being vulgar. There is a time and a place for vulgarity, press releases is not one of them. It just makes you look foolish, easily manipulated emotionally, and unprofessional in my eyes.

You know, there's a reason people say ORACLE stands for One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison.

Googling for Larry Ellison and various swear words seem to doesn't turn up any articles where he swears at an interviewer. Can you provide an example of one?

I've read it somewhere; sorry, I don't have a reference to hand.

You can read about Ellison berating employees and screaming at them in a great book by Charles Ferguson called "High Stakes, No Prisoners". It's a wonderful accounting of building a startup in web 1.0 internet and selling it to MS -- Ferguson started Vermeer which built Frontpage.

See also, for example, Ballmer screaming and throwing chairs.

I don't doubt he's harsh, but berating employees privately is very different from swearing at an interviewer about past wrongs done to you. One makes you a harsh boss; the other makes you seem a little unstable. I don't have anything against swearing, personally. I also don't have anything against drinking wine in a bathrobe with your hair all messed up. But if somebody who wants to be the CEO of a major corporation showed up showed up at a restaurant for an interview in a bathrobe with messy hair chugging Prosecco straight from the bottle, I would find that questionable as well.

(Throwing chairs raises the "probably has issues" flag in any context that is not an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.)

The situation is sour to begin with. A lawyer script though? This isn't a cover your ass situation. This is about respect.

I think she honestly spoke what was on her mind. She was insulted that they would do it via an impersonal lawyer script and said as much.

She was asked whether she would like to resign or be fired if she refused. Can someone clarify what advantage there would be to one option over the other? I imagine resignation would provide less financial compensation than letting them fire you.

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