DeepCreamPy- Decensoring Hentai with Deep Neural Networks (2018) | Hacker News Reader

DeepCreamPy- Decensoring Hentai with Deep Neural Networks (2018)

github.com

275 pointsacqbu134 comments

Here is the first (?) application of deep learning to improve the pornography experience, an Android app called Melondream published in early 2017:

http://driftwheeler.com

Surprisingly, almost 5 years after being published, this app still serves thousands of user sessions per day. That rate continues to slowly grow.

Except for its user interface, the whole app (client and server) was written in Go (https://pkg.go.dev/golang.org/x/mobile/cmd/gomobile).

It uses densenet feature vectors (https://arxiv.org/abs/1608.06993) to allow "touch-to-search" (ha!) with a fractional norm distance metric (https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.23...).

Citation: Discriminative Unsupervised Feature Learning with Exemplar Convolutional Neural Networks (https://arxiv.org/abs/1406.6909).

How does it improve the pornography experience? The description and examples on that website don't make it obvious. The Register article linked seems to help but I really didn't get that from the landing page or example video.

edit: now I understand, it is a continuous slideshow of erotica, and you can tap any part of the image to be taken down a path of similar images. that's kind of cool.

I thought it would have had something to do with decensoring, but nevermind.

Does BlueStacks work on an Apple Silicon machine? I don't have an android device.

A man was very recently arrested for decesoring pixeleted Japanese porn with Deep Learning ("AI").

Man Arrested for Uncensoring Japanese Porn With AI in First Deepfake Case - Vice (https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdq87/deepfakes-japan-arres...)

Note: This is not hentai, but real-life porn.

Whenever I see news like this- I feel like there are a lot of work that can be done in Porn with AI. There are several low-hanging fruits that can be very easily solved. I don't know why no one is working on them.

I guess it would be difficult for people to say that they do AI at PornHub, and it will be hard for people to find work afterwards. Not to mention the ethical implications even when the humans involved fully agree to everything.

Despite the headline, inside the actual article they admit that it wasn't really for uncensoring that he got arrested, but for copyright violation (as well as basically displaying porn in a country where porn is illegal).

In one country, making reaction videos or analysing news with clips from proprietary news channel is very common.

Then came a guy, who used news clips to create Before/After clips of politicians of a certain party. In these clips, the same person would be saying completely opposite things- on camera, and publicly- some years apart. These videos went viral. The party was in power. They forced the news channels to claim copyright to YouTube, and as they were legitimate, YT did take down those videos.

So, yes, when they say that he was arrested for copyright claims- I don't trust that.

>Porn and AI

This comment reminds me of a disturbing one I read a few months back on an anonymous underwater basket weaving forum.

The poster was discussing those expensive “real doll” (?) sex robots that creep me out, anyways he went on to mention that he discovered the app “face app” could take these things from “uncanny valley” to essentially photorealistic. Makes sense given what the app is supposed to do, but the real mind fuck was he said it also works on under aged dolls… which again I was surprised to learn are apparently legal most places.

So AI/ML can take an inanimate object and then create highly illegal fool-most-humans level fake image from said inanimate object. Seems pretty scary to me, and we might not be far from an ML model that can essentially produce endless amounts of illegal content.

What are the implications of that? How do you even begin to police/filter that? Then I guess there’s the question of if we even should, since none of it’s real anyways.

Porn and AI is gonna get real messy.

Not sure if I want to get into this discussion... but is underage porn still illegal when it's not technically depicting a real person? And is it moral? I could see it going either way (no child got hurt in the process / but it may push someone with pedophile tendencies towards acting on them / but it could also provide a safe outlet for someone with those tendencies).

It's illegal in some places, like Ireland for example.

In the US in particular, it doesn't matter if the underaged subject exists or not, but I think you'll find the law much more loosely enforced in cases where the subject of the pictures doesn't exist.

> it doesn't matter if the underaged subject exists or not

Are you sure this is true? As weird as it is it seems pretty ridiculous to suggest that someone drawing a sketch could be guilty of the same thing as someone abusing a real child.

They're both illegal under the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996:

> The Child Pornography Prevention Act added two categories of speech to the definition of child pornography. The first prohibited "any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture" that "is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct." In Ashcroft case, the Court observed that this provision "captures a range of depictions, sometimes called 'virtual child pornography,' which include computer-generated images, as well as images produced by more traditional means."

> The second prohibited "any sexually explicit image that was advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression it depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct."

(From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Pornography_Prevention_A... )

"Computer-generated" images was a remarkably prescient thing to include in 1996, since it criminalizes deepfakes and GAN images.

I think the standard argument is that even though actual minors aren't harmed by the creation of such images, the images trigger pedophiles to become more depraved or something. There's probably an element of the old obscenity laws to it - real or not, child porn is obscene, and obscenity isn't covered by the first amendment without some artistic merit.

I'm not sure of case law around enforcement of this.

Interesting, that seems to strictly criminalize cartoons then. I wonder if that’s ever been enforced or challenged.

Not that anyone would ever put their name behind attacking this.

As the Wikipedia page states, it was struck down by the Supreme Court in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition in 2002.

I think it is illegal in the USA. But explicitly is is not illegal in Japan.

Japan has a pretty bad reputation for making their child porn laws pretty narrowly defined in the international community.

For these reasons Japan has a very high level of child pornography activity, but I know very little beyond that or of details.

It's sort of an open debate on the extent of the legality in the US [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_porn...

I haven’t researched it heavily, but AFAIK the gov can’t really criminalize art/drawings etc.

If it doesn’t depict a real person, then what’s the crime exactly? It’s still disgusting, but that’s another topic.

Well sure they can, although it depends what government you're talking about. Porn laws in Japan are weird, and the government does require that distributed pornography (including drawings) be censored.

It's complicated, in that this depends on jurisdiction. In some places, the age of the character matters, not just the actor's age. Regardless of legality, I think this is very prominent in self censorship. A lot of filmmakers wouldn't depict a nude 15 year old sexually, regardless of the actor's actual age.

It probably depends on whether they can prove the individual was soliciting for the real stuff. Same legal reason for why you're still committing a crime when you fall for a sting operation with an actual adult.

> but is underage porn still illegal when it's not technically depicting a real person?

If we look at existing laws, it should be. Depicting an underage person even when the actor is an adult is illegal, I think, in every country. So adult actress portraying a minor is illegal. So why not pixels depicting young girls should be illegal?

The pixels are just the conduit, just as the the adult actress depicting a minor in a sexual act.

So it should be.

But whether it is moral- I don't know. I don't know enough psychology, public policy, etc. to express an informed opinion.

But my personal choice? Yes. It should be illegal. Hypothetically, if it ever comes to a vote, I would vote against child porn even when there is no real human involved.

That's why child porn in animations is banned as well.

> If we look at existing laws, it should be. Depicting an underage person even when the actor is an adult is illegal, I think, in every country. So adult actress portraying a minor is illegal. So why not pixels depicting young girls should be illegal?

Due to that pesky First Amendment, this is not illegal in the USA. The USA bans child pornography under the rubric that producing or even viewing it implicates the perpetrator in the abuse of a child. If no actual child abuse is taking place, they can't ban it.

Cartoon images and the like may be banned if they depict an actual minor.

It reminds me of the children's right campaign sweetie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetie_(internet_avatar)

https://vimeo.com/86895084

where an org lured predators by posing as an animated 10 years old.

Feminists are against it because they are afraid it could replace real women. I have to admit that considering the general shittyness of man it is not beyond the realm of possibility that one day we might prefer the companionship of robots. I read Asimov when I was a teen.

>Feminists are against it because they are afraid it could replace real women.

Do you really think that's why feminists are against it?

> Then I guess there’s the question of if we even should, since none of it’s real anyways.

The idea of "policing" something that isn't even real should be seen as just patently ridiculous to any thinking person.

What comes after that? People love to shit all over the "slippery slope" and call it a "fallacy" even though there's a clear historical record of how the smallest of openings for those in power eventually become handholds, then footholds, until finally, you're living under a tyrannical system.

I would argue that it's a reasonable limit on whichever freedom may be cited not to allow the creation and distribution of child pornography, even when it is fictitious.

That limit is probably where real harm was caused to a real child.

It's not implausible that deepfake child porn ultimately causes harm to children. Allowing people to repeatedly indulge in a weak fetish may reinforce it into a strong one, or blunt a disgust response which would prevent them from acting it out.

> those in power eventually become handholds, then footholds, until finally, you're living under a tyrannical system.

I immediately thought about the current US political landscape. I believe this is exactly what we’re seeing with respect to radicalization.

If you think the US is bad, you should see Europe. Covid has blown open the door for essentially war time powers. It’s crazy.

> we might not be far from an ML model that can essentially produce endless amounts of illegal content

Like this [0] one?

And give me enough money, I can get you one that's a lot better. But I don't want to work for a porn company because of not the perceived immorality of porn, but for the horrible things that come with Porn. And I am well past my teenage years to do this with my own time and money.

[0]: https://thisvaginadoesnotexist.com/about.html

> Porn and AI is gonna get real messy.

From a practical standpoint I think it is going to be an unmitigated nightmare: people creating AI revenge porn, fake porn of famous people, etc.

From a legal standpoint, I don't think AI changes that much. People still own their image and while I would support stronger penalties for creating fake media of people, the law protects third parties using your image without your permission. Revenge porn already carries specific penalties in many jurisdictions[1].

> I guess there’s the question of if we even should, since none of it’s real anyways.

I absolutely think you should have say over the release and distribution of porn that uses your image. Not because it's wrong to make porn, but because you are impacted by its existence.

[1] I am generally skeptical of the ability of the prison system to deal with these kinds of things, but if we are going to have one I am glad it's included in the list of crimes.

> From a practical standpoint I think it is going to be an unmitigated nightmare: people creating AI revenge porn, fake porn of famous people, etc.

I honestly don’t see these becoming larger problems — once it’s ubiquitous, then it’ll quickly become meaningless; by default, everyone will assume it’s generated, the equivalent of cutting out and pasting their face onto a nude image today, and it’ll have relatively little impact.

It’d probably still be rude and stupid, but I’m fairly positive it’ll be much less damaging than it is today.

Effectively: if everyone stars in a porno, no one does.

> if everyone stars in a porno, no one does.

I am sorry I missed this because I disagree, I think it's worth considering the legal status of lying. Generally, lying is protected speech (and everyone does lie sometimes), but that's not the case when you lie in certain circumstances. We've always recognized that some lies are worse than others and I expect that some fake porns will be worse than others too. I expect that making fake pornography will work the same way, probably following the already-established legal frameworks I suggested.

> I feel like there are a lot of work that can be done in Porn with AI.

Well, one of the de-facto test images for image processing belongs to a Playboy model [0], so it looks like a natural evolution in the field.

Actually it's amazing how image processing revolves around sexual imagery.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna

Lenna is a great image, they shouldn't retire it. it's only her head and shoulders after all, and she looks great. They should get a good looking male photo too, to balance things up - use them both for testing.

>> a lot of work that can be done in Porn with AI.

I think that "can be" is probably and "is being."

Porn generally, has a historical tendency to be a pioneering adopter of media technology. A substantial chunk of early commercial photography was pornographic. Early films. Early ecommerce. Streaming video. Porn is currently the most developed/active niche in VR filmmaking. I would even consider renaissance portraiture a part of the pattern.

In any case, most of "deepfake" that exists currently besides demonstration is pornographic.

I also think the same.

Many things are possible with the AI technology that we have today, right at this very moment that can be used to do things are the most wild things. Some of it would be illegal, some of it would be unethical. Good things are possible, too.

There was a repo on GitHub that contained the JDK environment variables (IIRC) to identify and box Uighurs from CC camera footage. The news made the headlines.

The getting out part was not really intended, I guess. So, imagine- what other wild things are out there in non-public repos.

"AI" is a very bad name, and often seen as synonymous to AGI. And people are either afraid or excited about it. Because much of the public facing content is focused on beyond-human AI. I guess this is because it is easy to get fundings, and there are private propaganda Machines running?

But there are so much that can be done today. Right now. Good things, too. If there are people willing to do it, and people willing to fund it, things are getting done.

AI weaponry is among this. I believe many things are being done that are far away from the public information.

Let me give you an example.

If there is a drone, I guess, it is not hard for mechanical engineers to rig a machine gun to it. Or with $$$ of defence funding, maybe a drone designed to host a machine gun. Then all you need is basically a cheap webcam and a Raspberry Pi to detect any motion, store the coordinates and aim and trigger the gun. When you have an enemy line, you deploy it behind that, and get done with it.

I am sure multiple countries have this today. And this example is among the lowest-hanging fruits of AI weaponry.

ads and payment as well. One of the first uses of real-time online credit card transactions was payment for the Pamela Anderson / Tommy Lee sex tape.

The reason for this is we descend from an unbroken genetic line of creatures for which absolutely nothing else mattered what they did or did not do except that they could procreate healthy offspring. The drive for life to ensure it’s continual survival and evolution takes on all forms and it’s power permeates every other part of life. primatea in all of our wit and charm have become too smart to procreate in some cases by figuring out how to short circuit the drive to procreate through artificial stimulation. In some cases, intelligence can become an evolutionary disadvantage.

I believe the issue was not that he was de-censoring per se, it was that he was reselling copyrighted works. That is, he could have been arrested for the same crime even if he was reselling them with no changes.

Someone who works in this sort of industry told a friend of mine that they are hired by a company that is contracted to the adult company but the adult company and the contractor company are owned/controlled by the same individuals. This way no one has to list some porn company as their past employer. If this was not done very few people would ever work for an adult company since it would immediately turn man future employers off.

How popular are the censorship laws in Japan? Is it like cannabis where the majority is in favor of legalization but politicians are beholden to a vocal minority? The whole thing seems so dated in the age of the internet. Anyone in Japan can easily access uncensored porn from anywhere else in the world on their phone now. What's the point?

Am not super versed in the question, but would wager it’s a matter of who’s willing to go fight the status quo to change the law. Contrary to cannabis, there’s no strong science behind decensoring, nor obvious medical use. The field is already under heavy attacks in a lot of fronts, there would be better battles to fight than this one.

I would argue that using science to prove cannabis/uncensored nips has benefits as an argument in favor of legalization is wrong. One should not start from the position of a thing being illegal and demanding others to argue for its legalization. The correct approach is to start from the position of a thing being legal, and arguing for it being illegal using science. So, has anyone proven using science that censorship has benefits? Reduces porn addiction? Reduces abuse?

Much of our free speech (and porn laws) are thanks to Larry Flynt. His case rather than being argued through "science" or statistics was argued via innate rights. Whether it's "good" or "bad" is none of society's business, and his case was about establishing the bar where society is allowed to care from a legal perspective.

Also worth mentioning that he lost his ability to walk over that case.

I didn’t know that. Was he attacked by someone due to it?

From Wikipedia:

> On March 6, 1978, during a legal battle related to obscenity in Gwinnett County, Georgia, Flynt and his lawyer were shot on the sidewalk in Lawrenceville by Joseph Paul Franklin. The shooting left Flynt partially paralyzed with permanent spinal cord damage, and in need of a wheelchair.

>Franklin, a militant white supremacist and serial killer, also shot Vernon Jordan; he targeted other black and Jewish people in a killing spree from 1977–1980. Violently opposed to 'miscegenation,' he confessed to the shootings many years later, claiming he was outraged by an interracial photo shoot in Hustler.[12] About Flynt and a Hustler pictorial, he stated, "I saw that interracial couple ... having sex ... It just made me sick ... I threw the magazine down and thought, I'm gonna kill that guy."[13] Flynt himself suspected the attack was part of a larger conspiracy involving ultra-right elements surrounding U.S. Representative Larry McDonald also behind the Karen Silkwood case with ties to the Intelligence Community and that Franklin may have been subject to MKULTRA-style Mind Control.[14]

It's worth noting that after a lot of psychological evaluation that he was deemed a paranoid shizophrenic from years of abuse and starvation at the hands of his mother as a kid. That's detailed on Franklin's Wikipedia page as well.

Free speech is one those things everyone pretends to support until someone uses that free speech to do something they disagree with. The mental gymnastics and hypocrisy tends to go off the charts quickly.

I dont think that is limited to free speech, that pretty much applies to all freedoms.

The number of people that can separate how they would choose to act, or live their life, and how the law should be applied to people is very slim.

Most people want the law to support their choices in life, thus if they don't believe blue cars should exists there should be a law that prohibits blue cars.

Over my couple decades of advocacy for more liberty, I have found that in general people do not want liberty, they want validation of their life choices

iirc Japan's more conservative laws, including the ones related to porn, originated after WW2 in an attempt to appease the US's Christian sensibilities.

Ah, I remember the terrible coworker who shared this in work-chat within a week or so of being hired. Somehow he stuck around for a couple of years despite continued terribleness (of both the "HR-related" and the "actually-doing-his-job-badly" flavours), then went to Facebook. Good riddance.

The funny part is everyone I've ever known to be into sex, porn, kink, etc has been not the one doing the sexual harassment in an organization but rather the ones calling out bad behavior.

Just like the heretics are usually the most deeply principled.

Because they understand consent a lot better.

That tracks here. From later conversations with him, he was not actually a hentai enthusiast nor particularly kinky, but was just sharing it "for teh lulz" - whereas I later ran into another coworker that had expressed concern about his behaviour at a kink club.

(There's so shame attached to being unkinky - nothing wrong with being vanilla! Just presenting this as further evidence supporting your position that enthusiasm for kink is generally positively correlated with responsibility and awareness of how your behaviour affects others)

Only works with color images, so that’s basically limited to fanart and explicit covers, and not the actually manga pages where the censoring appears

Very limited utility

Love the pun in the title

> very limited utility

Easily one of the funniest things I've read on HN; as if decensoring _any_ hentai isn't already a hilariously limited use case.

Not the latest on censorship. Couple of months ago someone was arrested for decensoring porn and putting it on their website.[1] With Deepfake and all the latest GANs, anyone can probably do it with an acceptable quality. It's just that the sale and distribution of such material will remain illegal in Japan for the forseeable future.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdq87/deepfakes-japan-arres...

A new front in the long-running battle between censors and those who oppose censorship.

The use of deep neural networks for this purpose seems inevitable, in hindsight.

We live in interesting times.

How do you recover information that is not there? Best you can do is guess what’s supposed to be there.

That’s why I hate watching 4K AI “enhanced” historical films, it is akin to rewriting history.

I never heard of this before. What kind of enhancing does the AI do?

It tries to predict patterns from blurry shots. It might introduce artifacts that were never there: some drawings I upscaled turned distant woods into houses. You can see why this might be bad when viewing something for historical accuracy.

See e.g., https://www.topazlabs.com and https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x

Sorry, I think I was unclear. What I meant is that I am familiar with these techniques, I just never heard them applied in the context of history movies.

Long story short, these algorithms aren't recovering information that was lost. They reconstruct the images by guessing what should've been there. So, you're not violating any information theoretic concept.

But this means the guesses can be incorrect, although the likelihood of that happening can be greatly reduced with good training data.

    It does NOT work with:
    - Censorship of nipples
    ...

What? Useless!

I heard hentai pictures don't censor nipples, only penises and vaginas. Haven't seen it myself, of course.

you don't need to even go as deep as hentai, you see it in anime (Ghost in the Shell is one prominent example)... it's fairly common to see nipples and a complete lack of genitalia

They used to censor nipples too, and then at some point they just didn't. I guess the Japanese government relaxed their guidelines a bit - after all, they've now recognized that manga and anime are effectively their Hollywood, and are very busy promoting them around the globe. I expect at some point they will quietly drop prosecutions of uncensored drawings altogether.

'Vagina' is not anatomically correct in the context of the description within the github text. 'Vulva' would be more appropriate. Vagina is the internal passage onwards from the vulva and terminating at the cervix. The vagina wouldn’t be visible under normal circumstances, the vulva would.

You significantly underestimate the sexual depravity of your average deep learning enthusiast. Vagina may full well be visible.

Possibly. But not in the average case surely

This project was deleted by the original author 9 months ago after they were doxxed/compromised potentially in relation to this project. This repo is a copy. The paypal donate link in the readme still goes to the original authors paypal lol.

> The user colors cencored regions green in an image editing program like GIMP or Photoshop. A neural network fills in the censored regions.

This will have limited use as it would require highly motivated individuals with enough time to go through their collections.

Speculation, also probably won't work with alien/creature hentai of the green skin variety.

This is three years old, why is this being reposted now?

the world needs to know

Urgently!

Imagine putting this on your resume.

Then you immediately pass the culture fit test

Plot twist: He's applying at Pornhub next, and this gets him instantly hired.

Out of curiosity, how many Pornhub'ers are also here on HN? (I mean employees, not users haha)

I believe the company is referred to as MindGeek.

The company is mindgeek and AFAIKT they outsource (/ use subcontracts / off the shelves tools) in most of their operations.

They do have a lot of open positions in SRE and development, from the job descriptions it doesn’t sound like just outsourcing.

https://www.mindgeek.com/careers/

They do a pretty good job at never mentioning anything related to porn. So I guess in most cases it won’t be a problem on someone’s cv

I remember the AMA one of their devs did on Reddit a few years ago, it was interesting.

I think the tone of the interview is going to depend heavily on the first impression. A well rounded person with good personal hygiene would make this seem like a fun and weird project. If the person is a total misfit neckbeard, it's going to be less fun and quirky, and more worrying.

I never understood why Japanese porn is so popular with all the sexy bits pixelated. I haven't seen much of it but it reminded me of the covers of 80s porn magazines with big stars over everything.

Not sure why they do it either but I read here it's the law there. Weird.

AFAIK it is part of some legal requirement, and the political inertia is against change in this case. Imagine yourself as a hypothetical japanese politician/lawmaker. You most likely don't want to be know as "that guy who fought for uncensoring private parts in adult media".

But that name. Ugh.

Doesn't work with nipples or anuses.

Is it just a matter of what the NN is trained for?

Finally something that deeplearning is useful for..

(2018)

I think the name of the library deserves an award on its own.

Hardly subtle

There is also DeepThroat, the speech synthesis architecture name of 15.ai (was added later on after someone recommended it on twitter)

Nah, that award goes to this project (Hent-AI)- https://github.com/natethegreate/hent-AI

Not to start a war, but Hent-AI is pretty basic by comparison IMO.

Here are all of the double-meanings / associations I can find in the DeepCreamPy name:

DeepCream sounds like deep dream, the AI technique

To cream is slang for to ejaculatw

Thus, "deep cream" would be to ejaculate "deeply". In general, "deep" is a richly evocative word in the context of sex.

"CreamPy" sounds like "cream pie," a type of pies, the pastry. Pies themselves also have a sexual connotation, due to the widely popular and influential sex comedy "American Pie" (it gave us the word MILF, for example).

This one is missing (NSFW): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creampie_(sexual_act)

Yeah, and honestly, at least for me, the most heavy sexual connotation. I like the py/pie joke.

Haha, how did I miss that?! Thanks!

Can you still tag that with a huge NSFW? The link itself is truncated on mobile so it’s a big surprise.

I think Wikipedia should add NSFW in their links.

How did you go this Sheldon and still miss that it's referring directly to a creampie? LOL

I can't believe I'm participating in this conversation, but misapprehensions beg for clarification.

pie had the sexual connotation decades before American Pie, see notably "hair pie" at least from the 1960s; also earlier cherry pie with its jailbait associations; I would imagine also dating back to the early part of the last century in Black vernacular, see for comparison jelly roll.

cream pie only recently took on its modern meaning; prior to the last decade or so it referred to the same thing it does now, but only in the context of eating it. search usenet archives (see asstr.org) if you feel an uncontrollable need to learn more about this.

creaming, your jeans for example, equally applies to women.

Incidentally this depends on DeepCreamPy. From the github readme:

> You will need to download and install DeepCreamPy, which is linked in the intro.

this name is too much. there's a difference between cute and vulgar. no star

To be fair, it's a pretty vulgar application.

shrugs Not to my taste, but you've got to admire somebody so pissed off with pixelation, they've created a project..

I was disappointed at the issues - I'd anticipated there being amusing complaints.

It's not my thing, but I personally find censorship much more vulgar.

Now we know what HN faps to..

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