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Comment by tmikaeld | Hacker News Reader

Yes, it is connected, which means that when multiple countries are at a loss, then other can help out - but when all countries area at a loss or when the frequency don't match, which is currently happening, prices sky-rocket, electricity cannot be transported and black-outs are bound to happen unless turning to regional shut-downs.

Which, by the way, is what happened in Germany recently [0], they had to be saved by multiple countries, shut down of large industry (Costing a lot in damage) - all to prevent black-outs. How will that be handled when Germany shuts down 10GW of nuclear power 2022, if it's already not enough?

If you have 0% wind and you add 0% more wind, you get 0% wind...

[0] https://eike-klima-energie.eu/2021/09/05/deutschlands-beinah...

Not sure how different facts would help, when issues are actually happening.

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You probably didn't realize, but EIKE is a right-wing climate change denier "think tank", falsely claiming that antrophogenic climate change does not exist[1]. Their claims are widely discredited and considered pseudoscience[2][3].

The linked article is an alarmist piece about the alleged risks of renewables and does not quote any reliable sources. I couldn't find any independent claim that anything unusual or alarming happened on August 14. Load shedding is a normal procedure and almost certainly didn't cause "a lot of damage" - it's industrial customers buying electricity at a discount in exchange for disconnecting from the grid when needed. This is only done for industrial processes that can be safely interrupted (like aluminium processing plants).

If anything, it shows that the mechanism works as intended. There wasn't any notable frequency deviation on Aug 14 in the European grid. All the graphs look normal - there was a ~15 GW deficit in Germany which was compensated[4], well within normal operating parameters.

In spite of the increasing complexity of managing the power grid due to renewables (a real problem which requires significant investments to solve), the German power grid is more reliable than ever[5].

[1]: https://eike-klima-energie.eu/die-mission/grundsatzpapier-kl...

[2]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europ%C3%A4isches_Institut_f%C...

[3]: https://www.quarks.de/podcast/quarks-science-cops-der-fall-e...

[4]: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=de&c=DE&...

[5]: https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/energie/energiewirt...

Thanks a lot for the clarification, I was unsure if the claims where as bad as they seemed.

It IS a problem in Sweden though, since we transport large amounts electricity over an under-dimensioned grid from the far north to south.

Agreed - Germany has a similar north-south issue and NIMBYs protesting against construction of new high-capacity power lines aren't helping.

The alarmism is misplaced, though. There's less excess capacity these days than some are comfortable with and more investments are needed (and ongoing), but we're far from risking blackouts or being reckless. Grid planners are a conservative bunch.

Alarmism about blackouts is indeed bad. The grid planners have enough fossil fueled power plants on reserve (paid through subsidies), and the rising costs from such plans are indication that they are indeed planning ahead. Countries in the northern parts of EU have enough fossil fueled capacity to survive on 0% wind for long periods of time, even in winter, which is somewhat being demonstrated right now. When the wind is up and running again those plants will go back to operate on standby and getting paid to do so.

For now it just a money and political issue. Continuing to buy and expand the fossil fuel capacity is not very popular or cheap, and continuing paying for reserve energy through subsidies isn't very popular. The political goal in EU is to reduce those subsidies, through the numbers in the yearly report tend to show the opposite. When faced with the choice of following the political goal and blackouts, grid planners choose a stable grid.

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