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Comment by sambroner | Hacker News Reader

It's hard to tell from Wikipedia what the 6th-grade reading level is and how its measured. Google points me to Flesch Reading Ease. Not a very precise formula...

If I remember correctly, the NYTimes is written for the 8th-grade level. Similarly, many hospitals/healthcare facilities don't allow writing above the 8th-grade level. So, expressive, detailed, and stylized writing are all easily possible at the 8th-grade level. In fact, I probably write at the 8th-grade level, albeit less clearly.

What's the gap between an 8th grade reader and a 6th grade reader?

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I believe that, when we're talking about the reading level publications target, that's typically evaluated using a linear combination of the average words per sentence, and the average syllables per word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesch%E2%80%93Kincaid_readabi...

If so, then the difference between 8th and 6th grade level works out to about 0.17 syllables per word, or about 5 words per sentence, or some blend of the two. So the gist would seem to be, don't be like me; use periods instead of commas and semicolons, and don't use a word like "orthography" when a word like "spelling" will do.

I doubt that that this is what the department of education was looking at when they assessed adult prose literacy, though. But I'm having a bugger of a time tracking that down, too. I'm not sure that I agree with Wikipedia that a Forbes article that doesn't properly cite its own source is an acceptable citation for that figure.

If you look into the sources this is measured by the reading tests you get that present an article and ask questions about it. There is an example in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29731528

The goals they list on e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy match exactly what I was told I was being tested on when I was taking the standardized tests in school.

Roughly, there are these breaks in understanding: 1. Understanding the literal words on the page, 2. understanding the implied context of the words, and 3. understanding the motivations of the author. Progressing in order of difficulty. As well there are ways to gauge how well you can read and how fast you can read, such as are you able to sound out and break down complicated words based on their roots or do you remember whole words.

> many hospitals/healthcare facilities don't allow writing above the 8th-grade level. So, expressive, detailed, and stylized writing are all easily possible at the 8th-grade level.

Not so. Rather, demonstrably not possible, at least not by some writers currently assigned to the task of rewriting instructions for prescription medicines. Subtleties of dose timing, interactions with other medicines and such I have seen mangled into ambiguity, or dropped altogether. So I was able to medicate myself with a reasonable degree of confidence.

Fortunately, in my case, the manufacturer's original advice as written for physicians was preserved, bottommost of three, behind maddening "plain English" rewrites from both insurer and local medical group.

>What's the gap between an 8th grade reader and a 6th grade reader?

They can both interpret the instructions on the side of an AT4 but the 8th grader will be able to tell you that it did not have any alliterations, foreshadowing, or personification.

People always forget that at some point in middle school "getting better at reading" stops being about interpreting the literal meanings of sentences and paragraphs and starts being about spotting and understanding the more advanced structures that makes for good creative writing and (outside some wordplay the advertising department engages in) is completely superfluous to what it takes to transact business.

> is completely superfluous to what it takes to transact business.

Except that it makes you aware of the techniques used on you, and able to use them yourself.

I bet English teachers in the UK loved (the 90s Prime Minister) Blair's 'education, education, education' (as a teaching point, aside from how their colleagues might have)!

> Except that it makes you aware of the techniques used on you, and able to use them yourself.

To some extent, but even a really good reading level is only going to give you a shallow understanding of that area. There's probably other aspects you'd want to focus on first.

> but the 8th grader will be able to tell you that it did not have any alliterations, foreshadowing, or personification.

I don't know what alliteration and personification means and I miss foreshadowing all the time. TIL I'm a 6th grade reader with a master's degree in a computer field. (Basically I'm reading text off screens for ~14 hours per day, doesn't mean I'm necessarily good at it but it's also not as if I'm likely to be barely average at it.)

Some lines of work might not need a meta understanding of prose or poetry - but it can be useful to build up a charismatic (almost cult-like) following if you want to play to the masses.

Alliteration especially when paired with "The rule of 3" is an easy example of a technique you can use to disseminate a memorable message to most people.

Is it useful when writing code? Probably not, but it can help your company when you do your fundraising or pitch to investors.

True, and the result is that a lot of people (even those with high grades) come out of high school not being able to read classics or just primary sources from before the 20th century.

Not only that but is the 6th grade level what it used to be?[1]

[1] https://www.amazon.com/California-Sixth-Grade-Reader-Pournel...

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