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Comment by octopoc | Hacker News Reader

This is yet another violation of the Sino-British Joint Declaration, the treaty between China and the U.K. defining how Hong Kong will be handed over to China[1]:

> Hong Kong would maintain its existing governing and economic systems separate from that of mainland China under the principle of "one country, two systems".

The West needs to realize: China does not uphold its own treaties.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration

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The big loophole is the provision for China's intervention in matters of "National Security".

This is exactly what has been used to craft very vague language that basically allows authorities to treat anything that goes counter to China's official line as a "threat to National Security".

It's so vague that self-censorship is now omnipresent in what was, just a few years ago, a bastion of freedom of speech in Asia. Newspaper and political figures are afraid of being targetted for their perceived dissent, and there is no real recourse, with pressure on judges to fall in line.

It is a farce of course, but there will be no international action. The British have no recourse to enforce the treaty. China will invade HK with tanks before they release their tightening grip on it, and the world will watch and do nothing of course.

It's not just democracy that is under threat in HK. There never was any to start with. It's plain freedom of speech that is under threat.

UK has all means to successfully use force, and secure its gains - that's the military reality on the ground.

It has an amphibious force to land a division, more with requisitioned civilian vessels, and it has thermonuclear weapons to threaten chokepoints — more than enough to get the peninsula.

UK is not a small military. With mobilised territorials, and first line conscripts, it will be as much as 10-12 divisions ready on short order.

This would be the worst course of action. The Chinese population is propagandized enough and won't hesitate to go to war head-on against the West.

It is an interesting question on how to deprogram the pro-communist party populous. All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people. E.g. Covid was made by the US to frame China. They also seem to conflate criticism of the CCP with Chinese people in general. I suspect many of the people behind the troll pro-China accounts commenting here are doing this (or they’re just paid). (Guys, CCP is anti-Chinese people. If you love China, don’t support this oppressive regime because one day they’ll come for you and your family.) How do we overdone this?

> All the brainwashed types I’ve ever spoken to believe the most insane things despite otherwise being intelligent people.

This is a general problem, not limited to China. A good percentage of the world population is ready to believe just about anything, no matter how outrageous. Witness the whole COVID denial movement as one example.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-con...

Right, but China is a particular severe problem.

Really, did you have chance to compare? When I read user comment section in CBC for example I loose all hope for humanity.

Try convince people vaccine is good/bad for them, you got a ticket for a ride already.

Accept it is a fact that people who you thought is unreasonable thought precisely the same about you.

Why do people think that Chinese nationalism is a result of communist propaganda?

Why would it be wrong or unexpected for people to go to war if their country was attacked?

The Chinese have seen their country invaded and sold piecemeal and have been striving to 'fight back' and to stand on their own two feet. That reaction started before the communist party was even created and the party is just an expression of it.

You can check with Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Philipines and other SA countries. I don't see Chile being hostile towards Spanish or Americans. A lot of these countries have in common though. They have different form of government. Perhaps, trying to be peaceful and forgiving would go a long way than trying to be mecha-ultra-vibranium-wolf-eagle?

And risk world war 3, for Hong Kong? Never gonna happen.

During the Yugoslavian war there was a stand-off between the Russians and some American troops around the Pristina airfield.

"The following morning, Sunday 13 June, Clark arrived at Jackson's HQ in Skopje. It was pointed out to Clark that the Russians were isolated and could not be reinforced by air and that Russian support had been a vital part of getting a peace agreement; antagonising them would only be counterproductive. Clark refused to accept this and continued to order that the runway be blocked, claiming to be supported by the NATO Secretary-General.[2] Jackson refused to enforce Clark's orders, reportedly telling him "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you."[5] When again directly ordered to block the runway, Jackson suggested that British tanks and armoured cars would be more suitable, in the knowledge that this would almost certainly be vetoed by the British government. Clark agreed."

What you are suggesting here is that the British would start World War III of their own accord and that Nato would follow them if they did so.

Not a chance.

A trivia of this was that the British soldiers on the ground were led by future famous musician James Blunt. Headline is probably exaggerated, but:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/how-james-blu...

You must be joking?! UK to retake HK by force?

A land invasion by the Britain into China would be suicide in modern times lol. I have no doubt they are brave and talented soldiers and they would do some damage but in the end quantity has a quality all its own. NATO would not follow them into that madness.

I am all for it as long as you are in a front line. As far as I remember by your posts you are always itching for action. Do the world a favor. Put your money where your mouth is and sign up for active duty.

Direct military action isn't the only recourse. It would be a pretty dangerous course of action.

There are a lot of Chinese investments in the UK that could be seized, as well as information warfare, travel restrictions, trade restrictions and Cold War style proxy wars.

Also things like giving HK BBO holders a route to British citizenship, which has high levels of support across the political spectrum and could probably be expanded further.

The Sino-British declaration was a way for the UK to save face and to sell the handing over of HK. It's naive or disingenuous to claim that China would do anything but whatever they wished to within a Chinese territory.

Ultimately HK will be fully reabsorbed back into the rest of China. That was always the plan and that was always going to happen. That said, HK is still separate so China is still broadly abiding by the declaration.

What the West needs to realize is that China is no longer a pushover that can be bullied at will. There is still a whiff of colonialism when Western media discuss HK.

> The West needs to realize: China does not uphold its own treaties

Does any major power?

Ask the Native Americans

Or these guys: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-fa...

Or this: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/06/793895401/iraqi-parliament-vo...

Yet just because someone acts badly, doesn’t mean we the People should lower standards for the whole world.

Exactly how is this a breach of the agreement? Formally this is done by the HK government/police. Is a breach of the general principle of two systems, or is there a more specific clause that is breached?

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