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Comment by gjsman-1000 | Hacker News Reader

If the designers get all the glory… sign me up! Maybe I’m naive, but designing UI stuff is a lot less stressful than making things actually work.

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Designers and PMs. Apple is being ran by designers and PMs. Which is not really a bad thing from users point of view.

Apple has product managers?

Parent commenter might mean EPMs (engineering program managers). They are basically project managers and keep software releases on time. They do tend to hold a lot of power at apple.

I don’t think I have never come across an actual product manager at apple. Design tends to make on most of that responsibility

Exactly. Design and Eng as far as I know. Project managers is a whole different thing…

> Apple has product managers?

hiring so many project managers.

https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/search?search=pm&sort=relevance...

Project vs Product

> Apple is being ran by designers and PMs

The nice thing about being run by PMs is that products and feature ship.

I joke bitterly with my friends at Google who can't seem to consistently deliver anything outside of their existing cash-cows.

That is true. It has its own downsides as well. Like extremely outdated and bad tech in the areas not visible to the higher ups.

I'm under the impression that EPM is more of a project management role than a traditional PM role given how tops down Apple is?

Well, it’s not easy to understand the full list of responsibilities for the PM ppl, but from my point of view at apple the most important and valuable asset is access to VP+ folks. PMs and designers have the most of it.

> Apple is being ran by designers and PMs.

That explains the state of Xcode and WWDC-driven documentation.

Apple doesn’t have PMs. SWE has EPMs but they have no power.

Direct power yes. Political? Well the answer is different.

Apples and oranges. Everyone’s job has their unique stresses. Trying to compare is folly.

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