Should we extend this attitude to everyone else that taxes the healthcare system?
If you got HIV from unprotected sex, should we shame you?
If you’re fat and get diabetes should we?
Etc etc. This is inhumane thinking and shouldn’t be encouraged.
If you got HIV from unprotected sex, should we shame you?
If you’re fat and get diabetes should we?
Etc etc. This is inhumane thinking and shouldn’t be encouraged.
Under crisis standards of care, the fact that you are fat can be used to allow you to die. Likewise, and especially, if you have diabetes, that will be cited as a reason why you were allowed to die. Likewise HIV or hepatitis, or any other health problem that you might have. Any health problem that makes you less than perfect can be cited as a reason why doctors might be allow you to die. Even a person with no known health conditions, but who is simply old, can have their age cited against them under crisis standards of care.
So it is understandable why some of us are angry with those who drove hospital after hospital to crisis standards of care during the later half of this pandemic, when there was a vaccine that could have completely changed the situation.
In a developed nation, we do not expect many situations to happen during out lifetimes that would drive a hospital to crisis standards of care. That some citizens recklessly put themselves into a situation where they could clog up the hospitals, to the point where the hospitals had to invoke crisis standards of care, demonstrates an amoral style of reasoning on their part.
This is already a matter of medical, policy, religious, and national history, and that story has not yet concluded with the many lives already ended. And if you knowingly expose people to HIV, that is generally both a criminal and civil matter. Meanwhile defiance of masks and avoidance of free vaccines is political patriotism — a brave defense of liberty itself.
HIV spreads more slowly so it doesn’t threaten to overwhelm hospitals, at least not in developed nations, but it is an ongoing pandemic which has killed at least 36 million people, including 680k in 2020, and is spread mostly by risky behavioral choices like drugs and unprotected sex. The social cost is incalculable let alone the costs to individuals and families!
So, I think the same principle applies and the same judgement ought to be given if any is given at all. Of course it shouldn’t, because the world is a mad house and we’re all inpatients.
If you vehemently oppose the use of condoms, physically and verbally assault people who try to distribute condoms in areas at high risk for HIV, retweet conspiracy theories about how HIV is not real and condoms were made by evil people for evil purposes, attack the doctors who are trying to treat HIV, etc., then yes: shame on you.
Not in a dehumanizing way, but cultural norms are sometimes there for a reason. As unfortunate as it is, being overweight is unhealthy, and while I don't think people should be looked at as less than human, they should know that their life choices are frowned upon.
Tangentally related: in some jurisdictions[1], not informing your partner that you have HIV and exposing them to the risk of infection is a criminal offense.
1. The United Kingdom, and New Zealand, if memory serves.
Diabete is frankly unclear since you can get it during childhood and again no way to alleviate it that people arent already massively taking.
>Long-term studies show the procedures result in significant long-term loss of weight, recovery from diabetes, improvement in cardiovascular risk factors, and a mortality reduction from 40% to 23%.
It is nothing like a vaccine.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25cnd-fat.html
You might be able to in the sense that it normalizes it. It's a little like how suicides can be "contagious."
And the person might not even need to be there physically, they could just be an image.
Do we need to publicly shame and ostracise employees of all advertising and marketing companies?
All ice-cream manufacturers?
What about smoking? Smoking kills 10 million per year, COVID is a pittance by comparison. Should smokers wear a yellow cigarette badge to distinguish them from others?
1 million die from the effects of second hand smoke - which can come off of clothes, even imperceptibly. Best to know about it, and give them a wide berth. Eg, probably a good idea ban them from going into shops at all. And from buying food, starve them out of the habit, eh?
Do remember here, COVID is NOTHING compared to smoking.
That is, by supporting such measures against COVID and not against smoking or any other preventable cause of death, you're effectively a "murderer".
As such, I'll be giving you and folks like you a wide berth myself, though I wouldn't go as far as restricting your ability to feed yourself.
No need to thank me, it's just common human decency.
Please put the nazi card back into the deck. You and I both know that we are not in nazi germany, nor is asking people to get a jab (and to accept that their actions - or inactions - have consequences) even remotely close to the plight of the Jews during the Holocaust.
I think the rest of your comment is worth responding to, and I will do so in a separate comment. However this is such an inappropriate comment that it deserves its own reply. I've linked some resources below where you can learn more about the Holocaust because it's clear that you're at least a little bit uninformed.
US Holocaust memorial museum - https://www.ushmm.org/learn/holocaust
National WWII museum - https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/holocaust
This one's geared towards educators (and unfortunately requires you to register) but has some excellent resources if you're willing to work through that - https://education.mjhnyc.org/
For your education, look up the several videos of holocaust survivors, and those who lives through other oppressive dictatorships, speaking out against what they perceive as a present-day repeat of exactly the conditions that lead to those horrors.
For example, any recent interview with Vera Sharav or any recent speech/press conference by Romanian MEP Cristian Terhes. (And if you don't find YT serving those up go to bitchute or odysee.)
And do bear in mind please, that one of the defining characteristics of the path to this level of societal degredation, is precisely that the majority of people at the time do not believe it could possibly be happening, and mock those who say it is, whilst simultaneously encouraging their silencing and censorship.
Ok? This doesn't _make_ anyone obese, while sitting on a train next to a COVID+ person gives you a pretty high likelihood of getting COVID.
That is, unless there's some new research that shows that simply seeing sugary deserts can turn people obese.
> Do we need to publicly shame and ostracise employees of all advertising and marketing companies?
??????
> All ice-cream manufacturers?
Should they stop marketing towards children? Absolutely. Again, I'm not entirely sure what you're going for here so I'm really just inserting a suggestion.
> What about smoking? Smoking kills 10 million per year, COVID is a pittance by comparison.
In the US but we have effectively banned indoor smoking on those grounds. In ATX you're not even allowed to smoke within (if I'm remembering the numbers correctly) 30 ft of an openable window of a business. Because it directly impacts people's health. Like spreading COVID does.
> 1 million die from the effects of second hand smoke - which can come off of clothes, even imperceptibly.
That's terrible, we should curb smoking if this is proven to be the case.
> Best to know about it, and give them a wide berth. Eg, probably a good idea ban them from going into shops at all. And from buying food, starve them out of the habit, eh?
what the fuck are you on about? root was talking about how people need to accept that they've contributed to the pandemic through their inaction, not advocating for barring people from shops. that's ridiculous.
> As such, I'll be giving you and folks like you a wide berth myself
I'm impressed- you've seemingly judged my entire character based on a single-sentence comment. Have you considered pursuing a career as a judge?
> though I wouldn't go as far as restricting your ability to feed yourself.
how gracious
A thought-experiment: how many people would be obese if it were impossible for manufacturers of unhealthy foods to market their products to anyone?
Look at the obesity levels in countries that such manufacturers exclude from their marketing campaigns.
The point is that advertising makes people do things they otherwise wouldn't have done. That's kind of the whole point of it.
It's an entirely valid and important argument for something such as obesity, that advertisers and manufacturers of obesity and diabetes-linked products, may play a major, even dominant and causal role in those diseases proliferation. How could people become obese, for example, to take it to an extreme, if there was nothing but healthy fruit, vegetables lean meat and water to buy - anywhere?
If you're a coder or engineer you'll know you find the faults of a system by pushing it to its extremes. Society/health and the struggles we face in those arenas are no different.
As for the pandemic, there are countries in "free Western Europe" that have violently arrested people for attempting to go and buy food. I've seen elderly assaulted, who - with trembling hands, hold their medical exemptions to merciless and uncaring store security, and a hopelessly split society pouring derision either upon the woman or the security staff. It's up to people such as ourselves to pick up the pieces.
These scenes are familiar to some of us, and people such as yourself discounting it is heartbreaking and frustrating.
Spend a little time rooting out what it is you're "not supposed to see". Maybe your perspective will shift. It's all there, if you're willing to look.