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Comment by forgotmyoldname | Hacker News Reader

I used to think China was some North Korean-style hellscape and hated the country.

Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was. Ended up realizing most internet comments and news articles are posted by people who are absolutely obsessed with China and only get their information through seventh-hand sources--it's that insanely distorted.

Left loving the country because everything was so contrary to my conditioned expectations and went back for a few more trips.

Pushing a super hard anti-anything narrative in this age is bound to backfire, because finding information contrary to it isn't hard.

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Everyday life is generally okay there, and it's not hard to have a great time as a tourist there. The problems are if you are unhappy with the status quo and are a dissenter.

You can flourish there, relatively, if you follow the rules. But if you get on the government's bad side you will be quashed.

> Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was.

Right because a couple of days (I'll presume in a city) would also give you a real insight to how things really are.

A few hours in some towns were more than enough to make it very clear that I'd never want to go there ever again.

It's weird how people come out and complain about this with only one specific country. Nobody gets angry when they say a trip to somewhere else was enough to make them enjoy a place.

The parent comment isn’t saying the food is bad or that they don’t like the buildings. They are making a human rights critique.

A few days seeing the sights is pretty irrelevant at best in this context.

I mean, I've also got friends there and speak the language to some extent now. It's not like I walked in on some sanitized tour for a day and left.

The country has problems. But it's not a prison camp of 1.4 billion like the internet would make you think. Most people are pretty happy living there, even people who've been to other countries.

It's definitely not a good place to be a political or religious activist. Most countries outside of the EU aren't and China is definitely on the worse end when it comes to that issue, but it's pretty nice for most people.

I've traveled to countries for weeks, even months in total, then moved there, before the real issues of said country / culture / society become properly apparent and people open up about things. I'm not saying it was bad, but it takes a bit of time to read a place. Imagine that in a place where saying the wrong thing can have you landed in prison.

I've actually worked with some Chinese for years and it wasn't until I went out on a dinner that some really ugly stuff about why Han people in the past have been treated badly and that being the justification for the treatment of Uighur people, then I listened to an hour about why Muslim people are a problem and all the horror stories they'd read about them in the paper (it was clearly propaganda). Scarier for me one of their best friends at the time, who just missed the dinner, was Muslim. That wouldn't be an isolated case I'm sure.

This is not to single out Chinese by the way, I'm just reinforcing my point that it seems naive to just say, "I stopped by, looked pretty good, I'd go back, seems like a good place."

I've had people from virtually every country randomly start racist discussions with me. I've been in Paris waiting for a train, and had some white Canadians come up and say "Hey, are you American?" (presumably my bad fashion made me stand out) Then suddenly start complaining about black people just because I said "Yeah, I am" as if that was an OK to be racist. I don't use that to say "yep, Canada's bad."

I've also dealt with countless people who've said "You've been to China? Oh, let me tell you how they justify racism" and seeing zero irony in their statement.

Bizarre. Seriously

And people somehow take any claim of saying "China is decent" to mean it's flawless and attack it. People don't do this with any countries unless they're East Asian, and they specifically get angry about China these days. You can't even mention enjoying Japan without someone online saying "oh they're all racist. I would know because I had dinner with a Japanese man." It's tiring.

If by "seventh-hand" you mean "first- and second-hand" then ok.

You don’t even need to go to a foreign country for this experience. I read bullshit about how bad conditions in California are all the time from right-wingers who just want to propagandize for their own political benefit.

However: you seem to be telling a native Chinese person that they’re wrong about their impressions of their own country. Do you want to maybe add some nuance to that?

> However: you seem to be telling a native Chinese person that they’re wrong about their impressions of their own country. Do you want to maybe add some nuance to that?

I don't read forgotmyoldname's comment as telling chunghuaming that they are wrong about their impressions of China. It's more about forgotmyoldname's own impressions, and his/her assessment of people in general who comment online about China.

In follow up comments, forgotmyoldname also provides first and second hand supporting experiences. Do you have any of yours that would contradict theirs?

This sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CCP. No real refutes, just brush air away by hand.

You visited a few times huh? I was born and lived there for 30 years.

It's really wild that people are so crazed that they think everyone is a paid shill. There's medical terminology to describe people who think everything is a grand conspiracy and make unfalsifiable claims about anyone who opposes them.

But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :)

> But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :)

Maybe you should visit the country. Anyone can make a claim they stayed there for a few days and only visited the elite, rich parts of the country.

I mean, I have. I've been to a few provinces and seen small towns and big cities. It's way better than I was led on to believe after reading daily reports about it being hell on earth--the low expectations made it way better. I'm not saying it's utopia or anything. Just not even 5% as bad as the wild stuff reddit or news sites would try to make me believe.

But people on the internet are way too into the Red Scare Part II and think literally anything against their personal opinion is someone paid by a state actor specifically to attack them on the internet. It's, quite frankly, nuts, and an unhealthy way of looking at the world and seeding visible increases in racism.

It shows the effectiveness of massive weapons of deception, and cognitive defects of modern human. Most people know the ground truth just stay away of the argument. Most time I do the same thing but not this time.

I don't think the guidelines of HN allow insinuating other commenters are paid shills. It's entirely possible someone visited China and genuinely loved the country and the people. Let's not be rude.

You sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CIA. You were born and lived there for 30 years? I was born and lived there 30 years then live in Western democracy with freedom along with human rights. I clearly know where the CPP hater's delusion come from

Did you even bother to read my top level comment about not calling people you disagree with as shills before you replied to it? Or did you just piggyback off the top comment at the time to soapbox?

Then after a few months your Chinese business partner gets a bit too envious and denounce you to the police for "spying" or "fraud". Of course being not Chinese you basically have no rights and you get exit banned or disappeared while your partner takes over everything your owned.

That happened to a lot of people.

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